The Great Indian Political Drama - 1 (Oct 2017 - Mar 2018)

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syam
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by syam » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:10 am

abhijit wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:51 am
who are 'they' and who are 'you' ? i thought it was us :d

The problem of blindly supporting modi and countering every criticism is that you start contradicting yourself.
I am big idiot. Please continue with your criticism. No contradiction here. I misunderstood something. Now I have some clear idea.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Sachin » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:13 am

Klnmurthy wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:50 am
Your rights won't be protected unless you are willing to do what it takes to achieve some degree of power.
For many people the "willing to do" part ended the day they voted for BJP in last Lok Sabha elections. From then on, the expectation is that the Modi & Co should now start solving all their problems right away. Right from showing the right places to the judiciary, all the way to shutting down media outlets. You name it, Modi should do it.

sanjayC
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by sanjayC » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:05 am

Indrad wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:34 pm
Bursting of firecrackers restricted to three hours in Punjab, Haryana and Chandigarh
Diwali firecrackers: The High Court took a suo moto cognizance of the deteriorating air quality in the region and sought information on the licenses of explosives from Punjab, Haryana and Chandigarh.
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... h-4888244/
meek surrender of bjp on whole issue will cost them ...
Exactly. It is a mystery to me as to why BJP is not coming out openly against the ban and bringing out an ordinance. What loss do they fear will come to them? Most likely, they are scared of Lutyens journalists and "international community" who will shriek that BJP is anti-environment and "regressive." This was a low hanging fruit for the BJP. Will cost them dear. This ban is just to test waters - next year it will be extended to all over India and for every festival.

Also, judges banning stuff bypassing elected government is unconstitutional. In other countries, they would have got impeached for trying to make laws and regulations on their own - they are neither elected nor does the constitution give them these powers. They have to operate within the ambit of the laws already made by the legislature, and not invent laws on their own.

It will be nice to know who is bankrolling fees of that Sanghvi lawyer dude in this episode, as he doesn't come cheap. Following this money trail (which will most likely lead to American NGOs) will expose the puppet master behind all this. American NGOs and front entities of CIA operate in India through high-profile, left-leaning lawyers to trigger far reaching changes through the courts. (Examples being legalizing homosexuality and attempts to recognize marital rape). Some judges are also deracinated and desperate for the Magsaysay Award.

The judicial ecosystem in India is colonial and heavily worked upon by Congress for 70 years. Foreign entities have latched on to it to change public policy through the backdoor. What Hindus are seeing now is a symptom of this. There will be no justice for the Hindus till this system is not reformed in accordance with the wishes and aspirations of the majority.
Last edited by sanjayC on Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:23 am, edited 7 times in total.

Marten
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Marten » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:06 am

Sachin wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:13 am
Klnmurthy wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:50 am
Your rights won't be protected unless you are willing to do what it takes to achieve some degree of power.
For many people the "willing to do" part ended the day they voted for BJP in last Lok Sabha elections. From then on, the expectation is that the Modi & Co should now start solving all their problems right away. Right from showing the right places to the judiciary, all the way to shutting down media outlets. You name it, Modi should do it.
+1
Until 2013, we had local municipalities, gram panchayats, zilla parishads, state governments. Now we have only the PMO running everything, for which he is now directly and personally responsible for every pothole or bad driver or missed flight or bad customer service at Amazon. Even for those that didn't actually vote, not just for him, I mean those that did not vote at all.

sanjayC
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by sanjayC » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:08 am

^^ The same logic can be extended to justifying Modi not doing anything in any situation that may arise. When Modi was given votes by Hindus, it was understood that protecting Hindus and their way of life is non-negotiable, regardless of how much "vikas, vikas, vikas" is parroted.

manju
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by manju » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:44 am

abhijit wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:13 am
Does anyone remember animal sacrifice in hindu religion was common just a few decades ago? There was systematic campaign against it when in 70s edu syllabus became leftist. I have books from those era and change was visible. From earlier syllabus containing mythological stories it became secular. We had this lesson on how Gandhi influenced a village who was going to sacrifice a goat and how villagers later became ashamed. Eventually this continuous shaming and education brainwashing kill the ritual. In 2017 sacrificing goat or chicken by hindus is non heard of. However no one tried to add a chapter in school book about how goat sacrifice is wrong during id. or go and campaign in madrassas.

Now, replace sacrifice with diwali and other festivals. Exact same brainwashing has been started from last decade. It is abated equally by congress and bjp.

Fadnavis who is traveling schools these days and making kids swear not to use crackers is not heard going to madrassas and making swear muslim kids say no to sacrifice or collect shia children and make them swear no to self beating.

This is systematic killing of traditions. If system decides then it takes 2 3 decades and 2 generation of kids to completely stop a tradition. Most imp part is school education.
Take comfort that the only once shamed or the english infected.. In my circles people still have feasts (after culling chicken/goat/sheep) to the local version of durga devi - both village and district level..

Off course some govt controlled temples dont allove them in the premises.. the deveotees take the goat on a procession and perform the rituals outside the temple and take home and then sacrifice..

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by manju » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:00 am

jamwal wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:36 am
RSS is a great organisation, but Hindus can not depend on RSS or BJP to do everything they want. If you want any change, first let your MLA, MPs and other people of influence know about it.

Sitting in your house, typing and forwarding messages will not help.
RSS goal is not be another great organization. THe goal is to organize Hindu society. It is just a facilitator. It may surprise many that it is not even a registered body and there is no formal memberhisp

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by arshyam » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:30 pm

Didn't Modi famously say he was a "Hindu nationalist", and proudly? Where did that go when Harsh Vardhan tweeted in support of the Deepavali ban? Like it or not, Modi did play the Hindu card in the run up to 2014, and folks now justifying his keeping quiet 'cos he didn't sign anything about these things in triplicate is not how it works.

KLNM-ji and RD-ji, your points are all valid, and no one is asking for new rights here (that we need to fight for, etc.). We are only asking to just leave us to our devices, and don't DO anything extra. In this case, the govt through the CPCB seems to have done that extra bit in SC, which is what rankles.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Klnmurthy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:29 pm

abhijit wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:56 am
Klnmurthy wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:18 am
Have they organized themselves into a strong, modern political organization that defines Hindu interests and fights for them?
hain!! what is BJP and RSS then? Those are not supported and prospered by hindu people? So now after all these years those strong and modern organizations who projected themselves as pro hindu organizations, grew on hindu support so that one day then can come in power and protect hindu interests in the only country they got are suddenly want hindus to take care of themselves? Until now what they were taking hindus for ride? And now they want hindus to start all over again, form another political organization and take another 70 years to form a government in center?
This captures quite beautifully why middle class Hindus are irrelevant to the survival of Hinduism in modern India.

According to this poster, RSS, BJP etc. were "prospered by" Hindus--meaning I suppose that they and their members somehow became prosperous due to Hindu contribution. (meaning of course that, for people as focussed and dedicated as RSS members, there were simply no other ways to prosper except to be paid outsourced labor for Hindu interests.). Then they came to power because of Hindus (true) and once in power, had only one job--to protect Hindu interests (what are those interests exactly? and which Hindus? Can poor people be Hindus and have interests?), but now they are "taking Hindus for a ride" (so (middle class) Hindus are just passengers, in the back seat, never can be or want to be drivers. Just hire someone as driver and then abuse them if the backseat laat saab thinks the driver is not driving properly or to the right place (what the right place is, the laat saab doesn't really know, and doesn't know how to drive, doesn't think he should know, but of course knows how to complain and abuse).

In real life, the most Modi or RSS can do is to provide some space for Hindus to think, organize act and build. Just look at how the grassroots-level jihadis, christians, communists etc. do it--they have an ongoing, full-time commitment, they organize, participate, fund-raise, influence, and "drive" their organizations, and exert political pressure. They learn, they lead. Constantly. Only Hindus seem to believe that you build up an organization and then sit aside to let them do the job for them, and then you have a right to expect that the job will be done, without any personal trouble or inconvenience for themselves. When it is not working (as it won't, because the world doesn't work like that), the only thing they can think of is, to do exactly the same thing again--to quote, " start all over again, form another political organization and take another 70 years to form a government in center?" Even though, apparently that didn't work, based on today's experience after the past 70 years or whatever.

Klnmurthy
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Klnmurthy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:32 pm

abhijit wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:01 am
Aditya_V wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:56 am
Funny thing is many of these Uber RW are happy blaming Mudi for NCR ban and happily using LG products.
Just one point. I dont think all asking to respect culture are uber RW. Most are as moderate as any common family man, minding their business all life. It is just that they are now shouting because somebody is throwing bricks at their house.
Yes, it is a well-known fact that if someone is throwing bricks at your house, shouting will always make it stop.

Klnmurthy
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Klnmurthy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:34 pm

abhijit wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:56 am
See shiv sena is also pro hindu and they are unapologetic and raise voice for the cause. Only if they were more inclusive and not just marathi. sigh.
Yes, if shiv sena was not shiv sena but still did something, Hinduism would have been protected. We hired RSS by mistake, now let us fire them, imagine a different kind of shiv sena and then hire that imaginary shiv sena.

Problem solved. Again.

Klnmurthy
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Klnmurthy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:43 pm

sanjayC wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:08 am
^^ The same logic can be extended to justifying Modi not doing anything in any situation that may arise. When Modi was given votes by Hindus, it was understood that protecting Hindus and their way of life is non-negotiable, regardless of how much "vikas, vikas, vikas" is parroted.
Who "understood" this? You are blaming Modi for not lying when he said clearly his government will be all about vikas, and fighting corruption. Apparently, when he said these words, he just "parroted", meaning he had no thought, concept, or understanding of what vikas was, or what he was saying. Just a dumb, stupid mouthpiece. Why did you elect such a dummy and idiot and expect him to know your interests and protect them? What does that say about your intellect?

It is a grand statement--"protecting Hindus and their way of life is non-negotiable." Sounds very powerful. But somehow, it is being completely ignored by Modi, Supreme Court, bureaucracy, congress, etc., etc.

So, now what?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Klnmurthy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:52 pm

arshyam wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:30 pm
Didn't Modi famously say he was a "Hindu nationalist", and proudly? Where did that go when Harsh Vardhan tweeted in support of the Deepavali ban? Like it or not, Modi did play the Hindu card in the run up to 2014, and folks now justifying his keeping quiet 'cos he didn't sign anything about these things in triplicate is not how it works.

KLNM-ji and RD-ji, your points are all valid, and no one is asking for new rights here (that we need to fight for, etc.). We are only asking to just leave us to our devices, and don't DO anything extra. In this case, the govt through the CPCB seems to have done that extra bit in SC, which is what rankles.
It doesn't matter whether Hindus ask for new rights or just want to keep the rights they already have. If Hinduism is under attack (which I believe it is) it means literally that Hindu rights will be either eroded or taken away dramatically as with the ban on Deepavali. There is no rule that you don't have to fight to keep the rights you already have, only to get new rights.

I agree with you that Hindus are very reasonable people, and want only to keep the rights that they have. So, what? And I too wish that Modi would issue an ordinance to make firecrackers compulsory, even though that same ordinance would come in front of the same supreme court that banned Dipavali. Maybe he should do what Nawaz Sharif once did in Pakistan, lead a mob to attack and torch the Supreme Court building to show who is boss.

But those things are not happening, won't happen. Just hiring RSS and Modi as chaprasis to look after their interests hasn't worked. Modi has proved to be either a bloody liar or a fool who failed to lie, or somehow, both.

So, what are Hindus going to do now?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Hari Seldon » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:58 pm

Wow.

So much shaming and admonishment going on out here by one section of the BGF crowd where we were all supposedly on the same side - rooting for India and for the well-being of Indians (including Hindus) in a fair and just manner (which isn't the case currently, given how blatantly discriminatory the state is against Hinduism in particular and Indic faiths in general).

Theek hai. Sigh.

P.S. The notion that your words and sentiment doesn't count if you merely use your vote. Not unless you also organize, protest, make noise, do civil-disobedience etc is interesting in a way. It says that a peaceable people have no hope of getting their genuine aspirations heard unless they cr@p all over and stink up the place.

Klnmurthy
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Klnmurthy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:13 pm

Hari Seldon wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:58 pm
Wow.

So much shaming and admonishment going on out here by one section of the BGF crowd where we were all supposedly on the same side - rooting for India and for the well-being of Indians (including Hindus) in a fair and just manner (which isn't the case currently, given how blatantly discriminatory the state is against Hinduism in particular and Indic faiths in general).

Theek hai. Sigh.

P.S. The notion that your words and sentiment doesn't count if you merely use your vote. Not unless you also organize, protest, make noise, do civil-disobedience etc is interesting in a way. It says that a peaceable people have no hope of getting their genuine aspirations heard unless they cr@p all over and stink up the place.
As one of the recent high-volume posters who has taken a somewhat strident tone, let me give you my perspective.

You are right to the extent that just being peaceable and decent doesn't get rewarded automatically with your rights being honored, with no effort on your part. And just voting is never enough, constant engagement is required if you care about any issue. This is not a novel insight by the way.

"cr*ping and stinking up the place" will get attention, and maybe also some success. But that is not the issue. Do you mean to say that keeping politically engaged, that is to say, having convictions and "keeping on fighting for them", is the same thing as cr*ping and stinking? In other words, a negative and deplorable thing?

How is it that we seem to see only two options--being peaceable and reasonable but entirely passive, or "cr*ping and stinking up the place"? Something to think about.

Also, personally, I think we may be ascribing special virtues like "peaceability" to ourselves, when it may be just a way to cover up our own our passivity and our disinclination to "get our own hands dirty."

Being on the same side doesn't mean--to me--that we don't speak up when we are off on the wrong track. Surely it doesn't make sense to just follow the crowd whose nature is to follow the lowest common denominator.

You have to shout and speak sharply in a crowd to be heard. Sometimes harsh words are necessary to get attention and have a chance of "waking up" people.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by SRoy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:07 pm

RSS is a facilitator, as correctly noted by many.

Frankly it is too much to expect anything from BJP beyond a point.

Atleast in WB this has been realized by those who matter. Therefore, it is HS in WB that is matching muscle with muscle. Elsewhere it is BD/VHP matter when it comes to real safety and muscle flexing.

What we Hindus are making as a mistake is to separate the political and quasi-military platforms.

I remember being admonished in one of the BRF's Islamism for suggesting mirror image response. That was a decade ago.
Now having wizened up with age, I am more confident to say I was correct. Learn from RoPers.

Even lord Shiva intervenes in VeerBhadra form when needed. So, does Ma Durga as Kaali.

Break few BIF bones and things will fall in place. No one will then dare ask you what extra you did beside casting your vote.

Indrad
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Indrad » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:25 pm

https://scroll.in/article/854073/worse- ... unts-india
Worse than Iraq, Bangladesh and even North Korea – these charts show how hunger haunts India
India ranks 100 out of 119 countries on an index that weighs the abilities of countries to provide food security for their citizens.

rebuttal from Govt
http://thetruepicture.in/global-hunger- ... -index-up/

went through the repot, 44 countries were not included in 2014 study hence India ranked much better, but India actually ranks badly due to population explosion, also ranking low than many countries on several indices...a country of grt inequality

Indrad
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Indrad » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:27 pm

SRoy wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:07 pm
RSS is a facilitator, as correctly noted by many.

Frankly it is too much to expect anything from BJP beyond a point.

Atleast in WB this has been realized by those who matter. Therefore, it is HS in WB that is matching muscle with muscle. Elsewhere it is BD/VHP matter when it comes to real safety and muscle flexing.
in a recently conducted survey on twitter it was shown BJP's dhimmi attitude will result in another RW party far more hardened in views and will eat up BJP space..till then support BJP..if you like.

Marten
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Marten » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:08 pm

I fully support and endorse moving elections to Twitter.

Indrad
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Indrad » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:44 pm

Marten wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:08 pm
I fully support and endorse moving elections to Twitter.
...SM is not a wrong place to gauge mood of people..2014 showed that.

Marten
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Marten » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:46 pm

With a party that existed and was backed by the RSS. Nuff said.

Aditya_V
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Aditya_V » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:59 pm

Further directing one's anger at us removes focus from the real culprits. This is care of stupidity which is what the BIF want.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Primus » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:50 pm

I feel that the Hindu community needs a 'Dirty Tricks Department'. This would be a force of hard core people who are willing and able to go out and play the same role that fundamentalist Islamic groups do. The majority Hindu community then remains silent as does the 'moderate muslim' world. Any action taken against this core group would imply an attack on the entire Hindu faith - akin to the clarion call of 'islam Khatre Mein Hai' that goes out and brings out the masses on the streets, thus invariably paralyzing the government agencies.

Imagine if a few hundred Hindus lit up fireworks in the heart of Delhi and defying the ban, sold them for pennies to the poor to go out and celebrate. If they are arrested, a few thousand more come on to the streets and protest, letting the powers be know 'ye nahin chalega'.

For this to happen, the Hindus need to work with single-mindedness and a unity of purpose that they have not shown, IMHO, for over a millennium. They need to have a corpus of funds available (which means put your money where your mouth is). Doubt this will happen, so we can continue to make noise on social media and moan and whine all we like. Nothing is going to change, we are like that onlee.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Hari Seldon » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:12 am

Primus wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:50 pm
I feel that the Hindu community needs a 'Dirty Tricks Department'. This would be a force of hard core people who are willing and able to go out and play the same role that fundamentalist Islamic groups do. The majority Hindu community then remains silent as does the 'moderate muslim' world. Any action taken against this core group would imply an attack on the entire Hindu faith - akin to the clarion call of 'islam Khatre Mein Hai' that goes out and brings out the masses on the streets, thus invariably paralyzing the government agencies.
+1. Exactly the reason the MH ATS under orders from the then BIF sarkar of UPA2 acted as it did in the malegan and samjhauta faux cases.
Signal going out in the leaked mistreatment meted out to Sadhvi pragya and Col Purohit was that if anyone dares stand upright and forcefully in favor of yindoo rights and rites, we'll literally break your spirit as well as your bones.

Desi netas have loong been sh1t scared of organized Hindu muscle - note theliquidation of any hindu challenger to the mumbai underworld coz such a hindu strongman would soon outgrow the netas' patronage shadow.

And RaGa oh-cho-chweet mouth-fart that "Hindu terror is the biggest threat" yada yada. The BIF radar has long picked up the remote possibility of an ultra RW emerging which will press force into action, challenge order if necessary etc., and is monitoring the same intensely. Their horrified reaction to the 2002 riots were exactly everything they feared.

And seems like, the peaceble folks have no options in due process, law, democratic setup etc to have their grievances and aspirations heard. Should this silent mass start supporting or sympathizing with extremist elements on the right, can one really blame them? Isn't it better to nip this trend in the bud?
Imagine if a few hundred Hindus lit up fireworks in the heart of Delhi and defying the ban, sold them for pennies to the poor to go out and celebrate. If they are arrested, a few thousand more come on to the streets and protest, letting the powers be know 'ye nahin chalega'.
SC too-cleverly-by-half, realizing that is exactly what would happen and that its unenforceable, resorted only to banning cracker sales in the country's biggest wholesale market - not bursting of crackers by individuals, mind you.
For this to happen, the Hindus need to work with single-mindedness and a unity of purpose that they have not shown, IMHO, for over a millennium. They need to have a corpus of funds available (which means put your money where your mouth is). Doubt this will happen, so we can continue to make noise on social media and moan and whine all we like. Nothing is going to change, we are like that onlee.
Why else have I been calling for freeing up of Hindu institutions, schools, shrines etc? Coz these places are exactly going to be the loci of our organized political awareness as Hindus who identify as Hindus politically as well.

There's a reason c-system and before them, their ancestor B-system (Brish1t system) ensured these potential centers of Hindu organization and resistance are under the state's thumb, permanently. Witness the bile against the RSS - it is one org the system couldn't control. They tried banning it and all, sure.

Anyway, 'nuff for now.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by merlin » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:43 am

SRoy wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:07 pm
Break few BIF bones and things will fall in place. No one will then dare ask you what extra you did beside casting your vote.
The problem here would be the police that would side with RoP, RoL and BIF and all administrations (with a BJP one first in line) that would side with the police.

Now what?

Locked