The Great Indian Political Drama - 1 (Oct 2017 - Mar 2018)

[Rudradev]

To add to the above. The Indic Collective appeal that Shefali Vaidya posted on FB was enough to get her banned. Why do we think that is?

Because if you look at Indic Collective's agenda, it is nearly ALL about Structural Issues. Demography, immigration, RTE etc.

FB (and its Silicon Valley influencers like Berkeley-Haas BIF brigade) do not care much what is said about Iconic issues on FB posts. In fact Iconic issues are the bread and butter of social media. And such issues can also be twisted to showcase the BIF point of view ("See, Hindutvavadis don't care about the environment! {insert silly firecracker-related meme here})

But they are very, very afraid of an organized group lobbying the GOI to aggressively pursue Structural Issues of Hindu Interest. They do not want the outreach of FB used to generate awareness of something which they know will really hurt their interests in the long run.

[crams]

+1. We moved from Vajpayee to Modi. The next generation (Yogi) is even more unabashedly Hindu. Hopefully, Modi will push the Hindutva bar considerably higher for the next generation to follow.

Possibly. But I am disappointed that ModiJi has not been forceful to respond to the relentless attacks against BJP govt from day 1 by Congoon ecosystem. This has tarnished BJP image to a considerable degree IMO.

[KJo]

Dr Swamy was in the US on a tour and made some speeches.


[youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8LKH2EKjK8[/youtube]

[krisna]

guess many are vexed and deeply disappointed by the british colonial vestige SC decision on ban on crackers in NCR.
Huge evidences available showing 365 days of vehicular pollution is the main cause.
1)NCR has more vehicles than the next 4 cities combined .
2)vehicular density increasing yearly.
3)pollution worsening yearly
4) crackers sales in volumes actually decreasing yearly.

The above 4 facts should make common sense that crackers bursting for <3 days should not cause the main pollution.It adds to existing pollution for short while.
In fact if no vehicular pollution, crackers would not have been an issue.
There was no issues with pollution for 1000+ years. The pollution raised its head only when Indians became affluent since 1990s economic reforms made vehicles a dream for many turn into a reality. This lead to pollution within years.
even burning the farmlands never made this pollution if not for vehicular pollution for decades.
Deepavali Crackers never made this grade over centuries.


Here sickulars made a killing in making crackers the main target. Hindus became sitting ducks for target practice.

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OTOH, this strange behaviour of SC and ngos sickulars have galvanised many Hindus only name or nominal Hindus to rail against the ban.

leftists sickulars normally rail against Hindus is not ther issue. But those supported them or only neutral are seeing RED now.
many are questioning the motives of the ban. This is surprising. some are asking some intelligent questions as in the first few lines I have mentioned in the post.

Actually at least in my circle I am seeing a reduction of support to sickulars amongst neutral Hindus. Many who were not for bursting crackers now openly saying they will support and burst some crackers.

Hope this will spread amongst all groups. spread amongst your little whatsapps SM circles and make it a awareness campaign.
-------------------------------------------------------

Sometimes negatives news galvanises people like nothing else.

[Karthik]

See... separate and apart from Vikas/Development/Economy, there are two types of "Hindu interest" issues. Structural and Iconic.

The ICONIC issues are the ones that are guaranteed to raise the emotional pitch very strongly. They pertain to symbolic matters that are very obvious, clear, and in-your-face. This does not mean that they're not important matters, they may be very important to many of us... e.g. Jallikattu, traditional celebrations of festivals (like diwali crackers or dahi handi), womens' entry into temples etc.

However, the nature of public consciousness is such that large amounts of mass public sentiment will quickly climb on top of such Iconic issues, stay there for a while, and then the issues will fade from public memory in a relatively short time. This is not a good or a bad thing, it's simply how society works. Therefore political interests (BIF as well as PIF) can utilize such Iconic issues for very specific purposes that usually centre around short-term flashpoints. They also make for very good TRP.

The STRUCTURAL issues are the matters that do not appear to have very immediate or obvious effects but profoundly impact the structure of society in the long term. These include FCRA, anti-conversion, triple-talaq (though this may be iconic for Muslims it is structural for us), Hindu control over temples, RTE, etc. Typically Hindu masses will not get agitated over these issues or become motivated by them. This is why it is very important for the GOI to pursue them consistently, quietly, and ruthlessly... because typically, no one will come out on the streets to support Structural Issues.

However, one generation from now, the handling of Structural Issues today will have a defining influence on the state of Hindus in India.

The handling of Iconic issues can also have long-term impacts, no doubt, but in a much more unpredictable and stochastic way (which will be continuously influenced in different directions as unforeseen circumstances develop).

On the question: Is Modi Sarkar doing enough for Hindu interests? I would say the following.

Modi Sarkar has successfully taken up many Structural Interest Issues, and has fought long, relatively quiet battles against the BIF in the judiciary as well as legislative organs to get our way on these issues. The degree of success is of course partial (these things take a long time to change) but the fight is ongoing. We should not expect instant microwaveable solutions to Structural Issues that affect Hindu Interests... it is a long, brutal slog of "ek aur dhakka", month after month, constituency by constituency.

However there are two Structural Issues on which I, personally, believe that Modi Sarkar has NOT done enough and should do more. They are (1) RTE and (2) Getting government out of the business of controlling Hindu temples. There is a third structural issue that has not been touched at all apart from once in the very beginning of Modi sarkar: reforming the Judiciary so that its worldview is no longer Nehruvian in aspect but unapologetically Indic.

On these three specific Structural issues, I will agree with anyone who says Modi Sarkar has not yet done enough for Hindus.

On the Iconic issues, I think it is a waste of our time to get too much into discussing them here UNLESS they can in some way be leveraged against the BIFs. Often it is the BIFs who try to create discord in our ranks by giving a lot of predominance to Iconic issues (from the other side) as a means of provocation. It is important that we not respond to their provocation with great emotional upswells, and end up dancing to the enemy's tune. Let's discuss these issues as they come up, of course, but with a very clear and unemotional mind as to who is doing what and with what agenda.

Iconic is not less important than Structural. They are like tactics and strategy respectively. But to bundle all these issues together and cry that Modi is not pro-Hindu enough, means that the enemy is winning. Better to see what we can do to control the short-term narrative re: Iconic issues, and the long-term narrative re: Structural issues.

Just my thoughts.

You destroy religious/traditional festivals, you, to a big degree, detach that generation from it roots. I worked with the pagan in medieval Europe, and elsewhere. 15 years ago or so, I was told that banning diwali crackers has been high on a type of desert cult BIF group. Main reason was it will detach younger generations from the roots. Now it has spread to jallikattu, dahi handi etc. These are the times when community gets together in celebrations as well. So you not only get detached from your roots but also the sense of community will get eroded.

Therefore, these things are not secondary to so called structual issues (where the govt has done precious little in important laws such as RTE, 1000s of hindu schools are shutdown, BJP rules half of India, how many states have strict anti conversion laws like the one in Jh?).

[Klnmurthy]

I keep reading that Modi sarkar has not done this or that for Hindus. Or, yes, it did this but it should do more.

Do Hindus consider themselves babies for whom daddy Modi has to do everything? What, exactly, have Hindus done for themselves?

Have they organized themselves into a strong, modern political organization that defines Hindu interests and fights for them? Have they even tried to form a powerful vote bloc that politicians would be afraid of angering? RSS, VHP etc. are there, but from what I can see--anecdotally for sure--, they are practically establishmentarian and don't have the fire and passion of people fighting for precious liberties. Their organizational and executional skills are--again in my limited judgment--lethargic and outdated, belonging to mid-20th century.

Supreme court had no business banning firecrackers (effectively banning Dipavali) or presuming to decide whether women should be admitted to Guruvayoor. But the fact they did, and all that Hindus can do is to grumble that Modi sarkar has to "do something", shows that Hindus are not interested in fighting for their rights at all.

As any third-rate political revolutionary will tell you that rights are never "given" to those that are sitting placidly with their hands out, they are fought for and snatched, and fought for again and again to keep them from slipping away. That means there has to be a willingness to sacrifice, pay a price, and most importantly, make the adversary pay a price. to learn from mistakes, and become effective. And to never give up. I don't see any of this among Hindu abduls today.

Government by its nature has to work within constitutional norms, otherwise it loses its legitimacy. The ordinary citizenry is not constrained in this way. In a free society, every citizen has legitimacy and the right to pursue his or her convictions, as long as the citizen is willing to stand up and take the consequences.

If he or she wants, the citizen can defy the supreme court, burst firecrackers, break the law, and go to jail. It is fashionable to heap contempt on Gandhi, but this is what he did, and inspired others to do, in Salt Satyagraha. Millions sacrificed education, careers, wealth, health and even life because they just didn't want the British government to tell them what they should do. Because they cared about their rights more than they cared about having a soft, comfortable, risk-free life.

It is remarkable that in all the grumbling, the anger doesn't result even in a murmur about organizing a fataka satyagraha or a jail bharo or rasta roko or any such thing. The "right thing" doesn't happen automatically just because it is the "right thing." It should have, in a manner of speaking, an army willing to die and kill--in a manner of speaking--to back it up. As Napoleon or somebody said, "how many divisions does the Pope have?" Gandhi had an army of empowered citizen-soldiers. Whatever you say about the followers of the barbaric middle eastern religions and their acolytes, they were ready to take some risk to openly consume beef and break the law. And the BIF have openly called for breaking India and have taken the risk of going to jail. Where are the Hindu civil society mass army divisions? And where is their deep-state propaganda infrastructure in Harvard, Stanford and Berkeley to make a noise when the Hindu foot-soldiers take a hit?

We have had plenty of time and resources to organize these things for ourselves. Building up these systems is not a monopoly of global jihadis and India-breakers, given enough resources, but impossible without the will and intent.

Should we blame Modi the politician for ignoring his weak, selfish, whiny, inconstant middle class Hindu supporters and instead gambling on the support of poor people who may be more likely to appreciate solid tangible gains he hopes to bring to their lives? It would be gross political malpractice on his part if he abandoned his commitment to the poor (which he has always maintained) and instead wasted any of his precious political capital on middle class Hindus who have enough resources that they don't really need him, but are too stingy or lazy to put those resources in play to achieve and sustain their rights.

[syam]

Bursting of firecrackers restricted to three hours in Punjab, Haryana and Chandigarh
Diwali firecrackers: The High Court took a suo moto cognizance of the deteriorating air quality in the region and sought information on the licenses of explosives from Punjab, Haryana and Chandigarh.
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... h-4888244/

meek surrender of bjp on whole issue will cost them ...

How did you come to that conclusion??
It's BJP which fights issues like this. Now you are putting blame on BJP. Forget about court role. And doubly forget about Snakes in BJP itself.

[syam]

+1. We moved from Vajpayee to Modi. The next generation (Yogi) is even more unabashedly Hindu. Hopefully, Modi will push the Hindutva bar considerably higher for the next generation to follow.

Possibly. But I am disappointed that ModiJi has not been forceful to respond to the relentless attacks against BJP govt from day 1 by Congoon ecosystem. This has tarnished BJP image to a considerable degree IMO.

Most of the attacks are from our so called RW itself. They became lynchmob and baying for BJP blood whenever something happens.
Remember how much flak Rajnath faced from twitter warriors.

These RW clowns have no idea what happens if there is no BJP.

[syam]

Once again it's proved. General hindus are fools. They cut the branch they are sitting on.
When they have no political voice, they should be careful with what they speak.
But no. These clowns behave like they are some power and can make any one to dance to tune.

[Karthik]

.....

So a man and party projected itself as a hindu nationalist party, so the hindus vote for that party. Now instead of questioning and criticizing the govt, you want people to get on the streets and fight? You are calling for anarchy is it? The BIF you mentioned about all of them have state support, in case you don't know or didn't notice. Gandhi? What happened with all the theatrics of that guy? It was the INA and naval mutiny that made brits pack their bags, so now you want people to pick up weapons after seeking inspiration from INA?

If you to be blindly loyal to a man and party, that fine, if you want to run down the middle class in doing so that's also fine. But don't ask others to be like you. The other group is not directing their angst at blind supporters but on the govt, they have every right to do so.

[Sachin]

BTW, one more IED is on its way.
Supreme Court refers case of ban on women’s entry into Sabarimala temple to Constitution Bench
As I see it, the Break India Forces have clearly found a way. They are humiliating Hindu belief systems, even when a pro-Hindu (!?) government is ruling the country. This seems to be a clear message being sent to the Hindus; "We the BIF, can s-crew you and your religion even when your favourite pro-Hindu government is now ruling the country. So next time around don't vote for the BJP, we may at-least give you some freedom to remain Hindus".

[Aditya_V]

Funny thing is many of these Uber RW are happy blaming Mudi for NCR ban and happily using LG products.

[abhijit]

Have they organized themselves into a strong, modern political organization that defines Hindu interests and fights for them?

hain!! what is BJP and RSS then? Those are not supported and prospered by hindu people? So now after all these years those strong and modern organizations who projected themselves as pro hindu organizations, grew on hindu support so that one day then can come in power and protect hindu interests in the only country they got are suddenly want hindus to take care of themselves? Until now what they were taking hindus for ride? And now they want hindus to start all over again, form another political organization and take another 70 years to form a government in center?

[syam]

Running down middle class?? What a dumb statement.
Not one guy comes out of his safety and participate in any political activity. And again stop talking on Hindus behalf. You are no body. You abuse your own political institutions. You have no right to represent any Hindu sections. Only hindu sect you guys belong to is the whiners club.

You guys are indirectly helping anti-hindu powers. If you have complaint about something, Go approach the representing body. You shouldn't join opposition and demand things from their space. What a naive bunch of idiots these RW are. Getting played by congress.

[abhijit]

Funny thing is many of these Uber RW are happy blaming Mudi for NCR ban and happily using LG products.

Just one point. I dont think all asking to respect culture are uber RW. Most are as moderate as any common family man, minding their business all life. It is just that they are now shouting because somebody is throwing bricks at their house.

[syam]

hain!! what is BJP and RSS then? Those are not supported and prospered by hindu people? So now after all these years those strong and modern organizations who projected themselves as pro hindu organizations, grew on hindu support so that one day then can come in power and protect hindu interests in the only country they got are suddenly want hindus to take care of themselves? Until now what they were taking hindus for ride? And now they want hindus to start all over again, form another political organization and take another 70 years to form a government in center?

What kinda statement is that? RSS projected itself as HIndu organisation and Hindus supported it? Now they are taking everything for a ride?

You guys continue to amaze me. I suppose Modiji is getting paid by Hindus so that he can work for HIndus. Bravo. It can't go any naive than this.

[syam]

Funny thing is many of these Uber RW are happy blaming Mudi for NCR ban and happily using LG products.

See their own statements, sir. These guys want to live their own life. So when the shit hits fan, they want someone to save them.

[abhijit]

syam, you are contradicting yourself. One hand you are saying critics are ruining hindu moment and helping anti hindu elements, and other hand you are saying rss and bjp are not pro hindu organization so expecting them to take care of hindu interest is naivety. Decide your argument.

[syam]

syam, you are contradicting yourself. One hand you are saying critics are ruining hindu moment and helping anti hindu elements, and other hand you are saying rss and bjp are not pro hindu organization so expecting them to take care of hindu interest is naivety. Decide your argument.

I am contradicting? I am saying RSS owes you nothing. They are not there for you to do your work. They provide platform for Hindus to serve themselves. You can't demand from someone who is trying to help you.

[syam]

WTH. . . .People have no idea what sangh is. And here they are criticising it.
Have you guys ever tried to learn more about what Sangh and their parivar do? Now I am feeling like Idiot discussing all of this with you guys.

Let me guess..... so you guys think that hindus pay money to RSS and they work for you. And RSS hire people with this money and work on Hindu issues.

[jamwal]

RSS is a great organisation, but Hindus can not depend on RSS or BJP to do everything they want. If you want any change, first let your MLA, MPs and other people of influence know about it.

Sitting in your house, typing and forwarding messages will not help.

[Klnmurthy]

.....

So a man and party projected itself as a hindu nationalist party, so the hindus vote for that party. Now instead of questioning and criticizing the govt, you want people to get on the streets and fight? You are calling for anarchy is it? The BIF you mentioned about all of them have state support, in case you don't know or didn't notice. Gandhi? What happened with all the theatrics of that guy? It was the INA and naval mutiny that made brits pack their bags, so now you want people to pick up weapons after seeking inspiration from INA?

If you to be blindly loyal to a man and party, that fine, if you want to run down the middle class in doing so that's also fine. But don't ask others to be like you. The other group is not directing their angst at blind supporters but on the govt, they have every right to do so.

By all means question and criticize Modi and BJP if it makes you feel good. But what it is not going to do is get Hindus their rights. Only by fighting fo their right will anyone get their rights. I didn't make that rule, it is just how the world works.

And feel free to run off on a tangent to my point about Gandhi's method. Most people, regardless of their opinion of Gandhi, think that he was an important and powerful historical figure. But if it is important for you to cling to the idea that he was a nobody who never did anything but somehow became world famous, ok then, fine.

Things don't have to necessarily reach the point of anarchy. My point is that anyone who only thinks of bowing his head and accepting what powerful authorities hand down, and expecting someone to save him, should not be surprised if more aggressive interests and entities that are inimical to him and his culture hijack the powerful authorities. Your rights won't be protected unless you are willing to do what it takes to achieve some degree of power. Using power for getting rights you didn't have before is disruptive to the existing social order and can be viewed as anarchy by those who are vested in the existing order (which is clearly anti-Hindu, if you go by the supreme court judgment against dipavali.).

Choosing to violate the supreme court's judgment and going to jail as a result is not anarchy--it is the opposite of it, it is law in action.

[abhijit]

who are 'they' and who are 'you' ? i thought it was us :d

The problem of blindly supporting modi and countering every criticism is that you start contradicting yourself.

[abhijit]

See shiv sena is also pro hindu and they are unapologetic and raise voice for the cause. Only if they were more inclusive and not just marathi. sigh.

[Klnmurthy]

BTW, one more IED is on its way.
Supreme Court refers case of ban on women’s entry into Sabarimala temple to Constitution Bench
As I see it, the Break India Forces have clearly found a way. They are humiliating Hindu belief systems, even when a pro-Hindu (!?) government is ruling the country. This seems to be a clear message being sent to the Hindus; "We the BIF, can s-crew you and your religion even when your favourite pro-Hindu government is now ruling the country. So next time around don't vote for the BJP, we may at-least give you some freedom to remain Hindus".

Don't worry. Hindus will blame Modi and do absolutely nothing else about it. And that will surely teach the Supreme Court a lesson to not mess with Hindu religious beliefs.

Problem solved.