The Great Indian Political Drama - 1 (Oct 2017 - Mar 2018)

[hanumadu]

^^

Posers? Like they readily pronounce dissatisfied core voters as pappu voters? Where is this coming from?

Seriously.

That single nonsensical post by Gus has generated two pages of retributive nonsense.

There are posts on this forum calling to vote for NOTA or finding an alternative to Modi. Without even a candidate or another party that can defeat congress, any call for replacing Modi is an attempt to divide BJP votes. The motive behind that such posts is so obvious.

[abhijit]

I don't know who you are considering a core voter. Not all core voters expect everything to be done in this term alone. There are some who recognize the difficulties and are willing to wait. Then there are others who are impatient. And then there are some who pose as core voters but their only purpose to affect dissatisfaction among the supporters.

Every person is different so cannot react same way. BSP core voters are Dalits. But not every dalit vote for them. Same for all other parties. But every party has a core base and they go overboard to keep those voters closer to them, except BJP. What is BJP's core base? Traditionally urban middle class, nationalist, hindutvawadis, business community in western zone (please add if I missed). Complicated thing is this vote base cut across languages, caste and is very diverse. Hence difficult to manage than say just Yadav+muslim vote bank, I understand that, but their need is more or less the same. After getting full majority and state power in majority part of India, there is hardly any difference for middleclass, no decision taken which can give them relief. What happened to education reform? There are education mafia's draining our pockets. This is just one example. Nationalist got surgical strike and vis-a-vis pakistan Modi's policies are better than UPA. Hindutvawadi's are the biggest losers in this as they have got nothing after sticking with BJP for so long to see a full majority hindu party government, an RSS prime minster, RSS president, it is like dream come true, but was it really? really? Lets see RJB verdict. If that goes other way then boy, we cannot even imagine the meltdown. Demo hit business community, yet they survived, GST as expected has initial problems. I hope NM team will sort it out. I don't know if core biz voters are happy or angry, someone can shed light. But overall, not so good performance for core voters by a majority government. If the time is not now then when? wait until 3/4th majority?

[Klnmurthy]

^^

Posers? Like they readily pronounce dissatisfied core voters as pappu voters? Where is this coming from?

Seriously.

That single nonsensical post by Gus has generated two pages of retributive nonsense.

There are posts on this forum calling to vote for NOTA or finding an alternative to Modi. Without even a candidate or another party that can defeat congress, any call for replacing Modi is an attempt to divide BJP votes. The motive behind that such posts is so obvious.

I haven't seen any calls to replace Modi. It is possible I missed them.

The motive that you are talking about is not that obvious to me. How can you tell what the motive is? Or that there was actually some deep thinking and a motive, not just a panicked reflex?

Not trying to be snarky, but what is the technique for figuring out the motive (that too, in a way that is "obvious " and doesn't leave any room for doubt) of an unknown someone on a forum, based on just quickly reading a quick post?

[Indrad]

Sushma Swaraj‏Verified account
@SushmaSwaraj
More Sushma Swaraj Retweeted M Badruddin Ajmal
Thank you Ajmal Sahib. Now you vote for us.

M Badruddin Ajmal‏
@BadruddinAjmal
Thanks Government of India for voting in the UN against US decision of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
@SushmaSwaraj

[SRoy]

^^

Posers? Like they readily pronounce dissatisfied core voters as pappu voters? Where is this coming from?

Seriously.

That single nonsensical post by Gus has generated two pages of retributive nonsense.

There are posts on this forum calling to vote for NOTA or finding an alternative to Modi. Without even a candidate or another party that can defeat congress, any call for replacing Modi is an attempt to divide BJP votes. The motive behind that such posts is so obvious.

Allegiance to a cause versus allegiance to a figurehead. You decide what suits you. Let people decide theirs. If you want a Stalinist model, lets come clean. But lets not hide behind fig leaf of democracy. Do we need a strongman for few election cycles. SURE. But if he refuses to act as a strongman?

Secondly on NOTA or alternatives. I think the population on BRF/BGF are not the kind of people that vote after getting swayed by internet posts. If NOTA or alternatives are a worry, then put we should pay heed to the ground for the murmurs are growing stronger there.

If a couple of posters have made their minds, would they get swayed by you or Gus? No. Then please cut the name calling.

If RSS promotes a challenger within it will prompt Mr. Modi to take the trusted vote not for granted. Strategically, it is also a counter guarantee if Ghatotkacha happens.

[Gus]

KLNM - it is not the individual. It is the general ambiance..a flood of negativity and pessimism being generated here (and over there before the purge).

trolls from personal losses, closet aap/commies fishing in troubled waters, 'core hindutvas' lamenting like neglected wives..

I see a threat of a nationwide MGB, which I thought would not be possible before, and now I think its a certainty - because contradicting and incompatible forces did come together in Gujarat under Rahul and ran close. I look at the amount of NOTA and voter turnout and that's a serious risk.

hence my post - you are either with modi or with rahul. decide and act. that includes not whining about modi until 2019. suck it up and get in line.

if you thought you have gaand mein kujli now over modi, wait till UPA3. and this time you will be tagged and targeted from your social media activity with full force of con-left-ngo ecosystem with power in its hands.

[JohnTitor]

There are posts on this forum calling to vote for NOTA or finding an alternative to Modi. Without even a candidate or another party that can defeat congress, any call for replacing Modi is an attempt to divide BJP votes. The motive behind that such posts is so obvious.

You assume way too much.

In any case, like it or not, BJP could easily have got 115 MLAs in Gujarat had they captured more NOTAs. So yeah, modi needs to make a course correction if he wants to retain his core constituency.

http://postcard.news/bjp-easily-won-115 ... ssion=true

People need to stop thinking that everyone who is critical of something Modi does is a Rahul or Kejriwal or <insert your favourite opposition leader> supporter. It isn’t black and white.

[abhijit]

hence my post - you are either with modi or with rahul. decide and act. that includes not whining about modi until 2019. suck it up and get in line.

if you thought you have gaand mein kujli now over modi, wait till UPA3. and this time you will be tagged and targeted from your social media activity with full force of con-left-ngo ecosystem with power in its hands.

Keeping onus only on voters is not practical. BJP call them ideological party but after coming to power if they become just like other parties then what are we voting for? I am not anti congress. I am their anti-ideology. I am not pro BJP, I am their pro ideology. But if I am being used then it is a matter of concern. Questions must be asked and people are raising them not only here but on different channels. Lets see if BJP is listening.

[Rahul M]

the SHEER stupididity of apparently Indian nationalist people calling themselves 'rightwingers' (proudly at that) never ceases to surprise or depress me.

[abhijit]

http://postcard.news/bjp-easily-won-115 ... ssion=true

Seriously. This is what scares me the most. I am not bothered of posters calling critics names. I mean what problem it would solve?

Anyway, <sigh>

[hanumadu]

There are posts on this forum calling to vote for NOTA or finding an alternative to Modi. Without even a candidate or another party that can defeat congress, any call for replacing Modi is an attempt to divide BJP votes. The motive behind that such posts is so obvious.

You assume way too much.

In any case, like it or not, BJP could easily have got 115 MLAs in Gujarat had they captured more NOTAs. So yeah, modi needs to make a course correction if he wants to retain his core constituency.

http://postcard.news/bjp-easily-won-115 ... ssion=true

People need to stop thinking that everyone who is critical of something Modi does is a Rahul or Kejriwal or <insert your favourite opposition leader> supporter. It isn’t black and white.

Except the NOTA voters were not for Hindutva reasons.

The reason for an increase in NOTA is that the trader class, Patidars and Dalits didn’t vote for any party.

[Gus]

I see the NOTA and abstains are primarily people who could have voted for BJP but were not enthused enough.

The anti-bjp voter will not do that. they will come out and vote for whoever is anti-bjp in their constituency.

the negativity here and everywhere does contribute to nota and abstain. the flood of fake news, faux outrages, exaggerations, etc are all designed to target a possible bjp voter to get disillusioned. it's a tactic that worked great in the US.

it follows a pattern of 'look i am against congress, but..i am not for rahul but...i am more whatever X than you about X but...'...it is all leading to one path - Rahul as PM.

we fault prithviraj for not going after ghauri and finishing him, but then help ghauri to be sultan ourselves while blaming prithviraj for it.

[hanumadu]

I don't know who you are considering a core voter. Not all core voters expect everything to be done in this term alone. There are some who recognize the difficulties and are willing to wait. Then there are others who are impatient. And then there are some who pose as core voters but their only purpose to affect dissatisfaction among the supporters.

Every person is different so cannot react same way. BSP core voters are Dalits. But not every dalit vote for them. Same for all other parties. But every party has a core base and they go overboard to keep those voters closer to them, except BJP. What is BJP's core base? Traditionally urban middle class, nationalist, hindutvawadis, business community in western zone (please add if I missed). Complicated thing is this vote base cut across languages, caste and is very diverse. Hence difficult to manage than say just Yadav+muslim vote bank, I understand that, but their need is more or less the same. After getting full majority and state power in majority part of India, there is hardly any difference for middleclass, no decision taken which can give them relief. What happened to education reform? There are education mafia's draining our pockets. This is just one example. Nationalist got surgical strike and vis-a-vis pakistan Modi's policies are better than UPA. Hindutvawadi's are the biggest losers in this as they have got nothing after sticking with BJP for so long to see a full majority hindu party government, an RSS prime minster, RSS president, it is like dream come true, but was it really? really? Lets see RJB verdict. If that goes other way then boy, we cannot even imagine the meltdown. Demo hit business community, yet they survived, GST as expected has initial problems. I hope NM team will sort it out. I don't know if core biz voters are happy or angry, someone can shed light. But overall, not so good performance for core voters by a majority government. If the time is not now then when? wait until 3/4th majority?

I am a Hindutvawadi. But I also understand BJP is the best bet now. I wish that when there are 1,00,000 people rioting on the streets destroying public property the police would start firing. But I also know that any govt will not be able to withstand the international pressure that will be on them in such a case. Until India gains sufficient economic and military clout, even legitimate action is not possible. This the reality of India where people's immediate concerns are economic than Hindutva. Modi might lose a section of the Hindutva vote, but he cannot afford to lose the economic vote. You already put the onus of RJB verdict on Modi while it is the court that will decide the outcome. Modi has limited say in this matter.

If Hindutvawadis want to sit at home or vote NOTA, nobody can do anything about it. But to expect all their concerns will be addressed in one term is too much.

[hanumadu]

the negativity here and everywhere does contribute to nota and abstain. the flood of fake news, faux outrages, exaggerations, etc are all designed to target a possible bjp voter to get disillusioned. it's a tactic that worked great in the US.

it follows a pattern of 'look i am against congress, but..i am not for rahul but...i am more whatever X than you about X but...'...it is all leading to one path - Rahul as PM.

This is exactly the intention of some posters who could not find a single redeeming feature in Modi since he took power. They post here only on negative news. They are no where to be seen when something good comes out of NaMo's actions.

[Gus]

I fully well understand and sympathize with the 'core hindutva' disappointments on some areas..especially the RTE, the issues of some activists being jailed, some senior minister saying the wrong things, or not saying the right thing etc. I am going to ignore the "all-destroying monster that Modi's enemies paint of him" thing..the ones who long for a hindu reconquista pronto.

earlier it was col purohit and sadhvi. the govt was much maligned for not making moves. but it did...it takes a while to untangle legal tangles and get them out and the govt did that. there are many instances where govt did make the right moves for the hindutva cause - at least make the egregious stuff go away and make it a level playing field.

anyways..my last post on this..

the game is to maximize the anti-bjp vote and disillusion the bjp voter. this game is on.

the ones who think "oh bjp will win anyways..what did they do for my pet cause..i am not bothered to vote..its not like they cared to get my vote" might well be the difference between rahul and modi.

keep that in mind when you go on and on about your cause, and how you were the original bjp supporter, how you were neglected and jilted, how you want an alternative etc.

your alternative is rahul.

[hanumadu]

^^

Posers? Like they readily pronounce dissatisfied core voters as pappu voters? Where is this coming from?

Seriously.

That single nonsensical post by Gus has generated two pages of retributive nonsense.

There are posts on this forum calling to vote for NOTA or finding an alternative to Modi. Without even a candidate or another party that can defeat congress, any call for replacing Modi is an attempt to divide BJP votes. The motive behind that such posts is so obvious.

Secondly on NOTA or alternatives. I think the population on BRF/BGF are not the kind of people that vote after getting swayed by internet posts. If NOTA or alternatives are a worry, then put we should pay heed to the ground for the murmurs are growing stronger there.

If a couple of posters have made their minds, would they get swayed by you or Gus? No. Then please cut the name calling.

If RSS promotes a challenger within it will prompt Mr. Modi to take the trusted vote not for granted. Strategically, it is also a counter guarantee if Ghatotkacha happens.

If people get swayed by this forum or not is a different matter. I am just pointing out some of the posters' motives.

You want RSS to find a challenger? So your refuge is again the RSS? What happened to all the other wonderful extremely popular hardliner HIndutvawadis who can win a nation wide popular vote? At least you admit you cannot think beyond RSS.

[srikumar]

the negativity here and everywhere does contribute to nota and abstain. the flood of fake news, faux outrages, exaggerations, etc are all designed to target a possible bjp voter to get disillusioned. it's a tactic that worked great in the US.

it follows a pattern of 'look i am against congress, but..i am not for rahul but...i am more whatever X than you about X but...'...it is all leading to one path - Rahul as PM.

This is exactly the intention of some posters who could not find a single redeeming feature in Modi since he took power. They post here only on negative news. They are no where to be seen when something good comes out of NaMo's actions.

^^^ This describes quite nicely some people I meet who talk about Modi. They'll pick a/some negative points about any action he has taken (DeMo, GST) and hold forth on that. They will NOT say one word about the positives behind any of those actions. And they will not bring up any good points about other projects.....coal block allocations, power supply situation, gas cylinders for poor people, etc etc. (Modi achievement thread is full of them). A couple are closet congressis and AAP supporters (when the cover drops just for a second) but they have NOT mentioned who they support as an alternative to Modi. They evade the point and bring it back to 'Modi did this and Modi did that'.

To those who say 'there are shades of gray between criticising Modi and opposing him', sure.....but only until the elections. On election day, it is a black-and-white choice.

[hanumadu]

I fully well understand and sympathize with the 'core hindutva' disappointments on some areas..especially the RTE, the issues of some activists being jailed, some senior minister saying the wrong things, or not saying the right thing etc. I am going to ignore the "all-destroying monster that Modi's enemies paint of him" thing..the ones who long for a hindu reconquista pronto.

earlier it was col purohit and sadhvi. the govt was much maligned for not making moves. but it did...it takes a while to untangle legal tangles and get them out and the govt did that. there are many instances where govt did make the right moves for the hindutva cause - at least make the egregious stuff go away and make it a level playing field.

anyways..my last post on this..

the game is to maximize the anti-bjp vote and disillusion the bjp voter. this game is on.

the ones who think "oh bjp will win anyways..what did they do for my pet cause..i am not bothered to vote..its not like they cared to get my vote" might well be the difference between rahul and modi.

keep that in mind when you go on and on about your cause, and how you were the original bjp supporter, how you were neglected and jilted, how you want an alternative etc.

your alternative is rahul.

+1000.
Great point about Sadhvi and Purohit. That is now completely forgotten. They said why is Modi not creating pro BJP channels. Now we have Republic and TImes Now. If not pro BJP, at least they are not part of C system. Action on FCRA is forgotten.

[Hari Seldon]

Bollox.

I consider moiself Hindutwavadi. I voted BJP in the past and will do so again.

But yeah, I have some issues with my govt that sought and got my vote.

So as per the busybodies here:
(a) I shouldn't hold an opinion? < ThoughtCrime! >
(b) OK to hold an opinion but Oh, No! Can't express it even civil-ly coz, hey, negativity -> NOTA -> RaGa will rise?
(c) OK to hold & express an opinion in "safe" PIF confines (e.g., BGF) amid fellow PIF folks but at a cost, namely, be ready to be name-called:
[1] as whiners/losers/posers/unwanted/lamenters/'neglected wives' (new one, how witty! And cute.)/etc.
[2] as a troll/trojan/agent/poseur/commie/etc. for RaGa/C-system/BIF/etc.?
[3] Both of the above (most probable outcome).

WTF. All I see above are false choices.

Why can't genuine Indics express themselves civil-ly here? One may not agree with them but that's fine.

What is NOT fine is this whole fetish to phucking try to *regulate* civil speech here.

I mean WhoTF are some G or H or F to phakking tell someone else saying their piece civil-ly to STFU? No, really, WhoTF are you anyway?

I intend to raise my issues/concerns/disappointments/whatever about Modi sarkar's words and deeds as always.

If G or H or F don't approve, too bad.

Over and out. Peace.

[syam]

If people have problem with Modiji, they should go to Delhi and deal with him directly. It's not good to poison forums just because you are feeling so unjust.

Even under Congress rule, things are not this bad in discussion forums. But suddenly, people became so opinionated that they are having urge to speak 24 hours non stop. People stopped thinking rational way and failing to understand situation.

Congress cheated our nation for decades. People still analysed situation with clear mind. But now it seems like they lost their logical faculties and resorting to plain bitching all day.

Your outrage is ok. But forum is not twitter. Your opinions tend to have more impact on posters. You can't bitch here and leave destruction in your trail. It's been months since I read any meaningful discussion in this forum. We are slowly going to oblivion day by day with our opinions getting silly on the way.

[achoudhury]

So much Rona Dhona on Modi but I dont see any outrage on Judiciary. Modi do this, Modi do that, and if he has any time left then Modi should also wipe by nose buggers. We are strange people; amount of institutional work that this Modi govt has done to fight corruption is all undone with one debacle. I mean suddenly, Aadhaar, DBT, DeMo, GST, RERA, Bankruptcy bill, auctioning of nat resources all amount to nothing. Get real guys. Modi is not the culprit here. It is the C-System built over 6 decades and Judiciary is its last bastion of refuge. Modi can tame bureaucracy by second term but I have no idea how this rotten judiciary will be tamed. One thing is certain, enemies have found oxygen and regrouping because of this rotten judiciary.

Also, core issues of RTE, 370, UCC and RJB are pet peeve among some. 370 and UCC is constitutional issue and changing that will require 2/3rd majority in RS. Just majority in LS will not do. RTE is complicated. Most people do not want to send their Kids to Govt school and hence repealing it will benefit few hindu run schools but will cause outrage among Middle and poor class. Already fees are too high. BJP understands it. It will have to be tackled in some different way. Like close down some Govt schools and use that money thru DBT to subsidize poor and middle class in Pvt schools.

But I do believe RJB is something that BJP can move now. First, give an ulimatum to court to give a verdict by Apr-May and if that does not happen then call a joint monsoon session to bring a legislation. This is do-able. It might not pass but intent of BJP and Congress will become clear. Although I think Modi will fire this brahmastra only if Kar results is not in his favor.

[Indrad]

Justice OP Saini hints at the culpability of two principal secretaries in the Manmohan Singh PMO - Pulok Chatterjee and TKA Nair.

Justice Saini's comment that the prosecution seemed to have lost interest in the case is an indictment of the Narendra Modi government's lax approach. Its law minister, finance minister and home minister stand exposed as both incompetent and ineffective in failing to direct the prosecution to probe Manmohan Singh's PMO and the high command of the Congress and DMK that remote-controlled it.

Unless the Modi government's appeal to a higher court against justice Saini's verdict focuses on the real culprits and not their bagmen, it will not only lose that appeal but also its credibility and future electability.

For the Congress and DMK top leadership though, the unpleasant surprise is this: The spotlight they avoided in the 2G telecom case for a decade is now firmly on them.

https://www.dailyo.in/politics/2g-scam- ... 21318.html

[Primus]

There is absolutely nothing wrong in voicing dissent and having a different POV. Even if that is diametrically opposite to what the BJP means to most people. I would absolutely welcome any overt Congress/AAP/Communist sympathizers and supporters who can articulate their case for their choice clearly. At least then we can have an honest discussion with the opposite narrative.

It is also perfectly alright to express dissatisfaction with the workings of the NaMo regime and lament the slow pace of reforms and pro-Hindutva actions, provided you were a supporter or voted for him, else it is disingenuous.

What is painful is to see well meaning nationalists go hammer and tongs at the only government that has had the courage to do so much good for so many people against so much opposition. If we are all just fair-weather friends of the BJP and are ready to jump ship the moment storm clouds gather on the horizon, then it would be better to join the forces that are hell bent on destroying it. Comments like 'let the chaiwallah go and sell tea, and we will find somebody else to replace him' are not what one would expect from a BJP supporter, even a disgruntled one.

For anybody who is now vigorously campaigning on this forum and elsewhere against NaMo, I would suggest asking yourself the following and answering them truthfully - yes or no.

1. Do you believe NaMo is an honest man and works without a self-interest?

2. Has he done more to eliminate corruption than the UPA regime?

3. Has he done more to uplift the poor masses of the country?

4. Has he empowered the defense forces and taken a tougher stance against Pakistan?

5. Has he done more to improve the economy and eliminate black money, even if we have not seen concrete evidence of the latter as yet?

6. Has the BJP done more for Hindus in this short term than the UPA/Congress in their lifetime in power?

7. Has the present government done more to improve the infrastructure - roads, power, water supply - of the nation than the previous regime?

8. Has Narendra Modi done more to improve India's standing in the world, and as a consequence, are you holding your head up higher today as an Indian?

If the answer to even half of the above questions is YES, then I would humbly suggest that you pause for a moment, think about everything positive that the BJP has done, even if all the ideas did not work or have not borne fruit yet, and continue believing in the possibility that everything that you hoped for will indeed come to pass one day.

We should all take a lesson from and spare a thought for the poor RSS karyakarta who, in a post-Godse world, continued to believe in the ideology he supported and worked quietly for decades, waiting patiently for the day when his dreams would come true. Casting aside all doubts and braving the fierce onslaught from a nation lost in the febrile devotion to the Dynasty post-IG, he just carried on.

We need to stand firm, now more than ever before.

[Rudradev]

Simple pooch here.

The 2G and Adarsh Verdicts reveal

(1) that the judiciary is compromised,
and
(2) that, specifically relating to scams which broke when UPA was in power, the ability to prosecute the UPA criminals involved is compromised. This is because of collusion between the (then-) political power centers and (then-) law enforcement/prosecution agencies. The likelihood of finding evidence, efficiency of investigation, possibility of building a strong case, etc. diminishes asymptotically over time for any crime.

(2), in fact, would be true even if (1) were not.

So my pooches are
A) CAN Modi sarkar do anything about (1) or (2)? I mean, under the Indian constitution and given present political realities.
B) If they can do something, what can they do?
C) If they cannot do anything, how much utility/credibility is there in whining that Modi sarkar is not doing anything?

[Indrad]

today one of cases on Lalu regarding fodder scam will be decided upon..hunch is he will be punished as courts need to do monkey balancing now! Their reputation is in tatters.