The Great Indian Political Drama - 1 (Oct 2017 - Mar 2018)

[abhijit]

Fadnavis who is traveling schools these days and making kids swear not to use crackers is not heard going to madrassas and making swear muslim kids say no to sacrifice or collect shia children and make them swear no to self beating.

Where did you see this info?

just google fadnavis pledge school pollution (pun intended)

[Karthik]

Cool, way to go BJP.

[Aman]

"Facebook blocks user for sharing donation appeal to Civil Liberties group":

http://www.opindia.com/2017/10/facebook ... ist-group/

"Few of their main objectives which they are trying to fulfil are:

Freeing Hindu religious institutions from unconstitutional state control
Deportation of illegal immigrants who pose a threat to the demographic balance and as a result, to national security
Repelling blasphemy laws, fighting against illegal and fraudulent religious conversions
Unconstitutional treatment of Indic educational institutions and recovery of stolen Indic artefacts".

[abhijit]

Ramdas kadam's and harshvardhan's language on diwali pollution is so same it is uncanny. both environment ministers, wonder what else is the common denominator here.

[abhijit]

These days environment ministry is a real hot seat. Lot of attention and power, and funding flowing from all directions. One way it is good, on the other hand cause can be misused if not being careful.

[Gus]

The prediction was that just how advani became "statesman" when modi came up - modi too would become "statesman" when yogi or Amit comes up.

Never though that the call for that would start from this side of the spectrum though

[Marten]

If folks here could, they would have NaMp join the margadarshak mandal and hand over the reins to RaGa. I had tried to explain this move in some post in the earlier thread. As the number of RW parties increases, the space on the right reduces, and folks move further right until they push the line that currently defines nutjobs. Serious alternatives to INC and BJP will develop over time, if the space for the RW parties is maintained. BJP itself will be looked upon as a centrist party, with all those claiming that space currently will move further to the left.

[Hari Seldon]

^ Baloney.

There's going to be no new alternative to BJP emerge on a national level anytime soon.

BJP's own ascent was thanks to decades of painstaking groundwork by RSS and Hindutva cadre, which NM leveraged as a force-multiplier in 2013-14.

"Our" (as in the Hindu identity voters) best chance as of now is to pressurize BJP from within to move towards a less indifferent stance towards Hindu issues than is the case at present.

All avenues (from grassroot cadre to soc media luminaries to RSS functionaries who have the party's ear) must be explored and recruited for this effort, ideally.

More than NM, I think Amitbhai Shah, free of Govt responsibilities, can act as a pressure point and spokie for our views within the appropriate fora to move GoI to bring about a level playing field for our besieged community. Or so I hope.

[Schmidt]

https://www.pgurus.com/wp-content/uploa ... 96x501.jpg

Exclusive visuals of Karwa Chauth celebrations at NDTV office

[Schmidt]

^ Baloney.

"Our" (as in the Hindu identity voters) best chance as of now is to pressurize BJP from within to move towards a less indifferent stance towards Hindu issues than is the case at present.

All avenues (from grassroot cadre to soc media luminaries to RSS functionaries who have the party's ear) must be explored and recruited for this effort, ideally.

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+108

This is the gist of the last few pages

But some posters think there should be no difference of opinion whatsoever with BJP / NM and come up with all kinds of reasons to justify their eloquent silence

[abhijit]

If BJP is only and only thinking about vikas, betting everything on it and become completely isolated from hindu causes then better do and show vikas of everyone. Because when vikas of everyone fails dont come to hindus asking for votes on hindu problems. It will be just like congress betting their everything on secularism and when it doomed they had nothing left to give.

[Marten]

>>"Our" (as in the Hindu identity voters) best chance as of now is to pressurize BJP from within to move towards a less indifferent stance towards Hindu issues than is the case at present.

So do you think the RSS is not involved in the entire process? Where did 4 CMs and 1 PM turn up from? Were they nurtured with a careful disdain of Hindu issues> No! They didn't win using RJB as a plank -- they used Vikas. They fought corruption and for good governance, with visible results. That, and the promise that RJB would worked upon. That the measures are not Hindu enough by your standards doesn't mean the RSS/BJP or indeed MAD do not know how to win elections any more.

The RW parties will emerge, from within the RSS fold itself. Give it ten years and we will have one more viable unit at least in a few states. I don't expect Rajasthan or Haryana to vote BJP in again. Same in Punjab or Delhi. Uttarakhand also sways each election, just as TN does. Given this, what should Modi be doing? Alienating the poor who're waiting to be divided by caste-based equations or try and unify them using visible measures that benefit them without being hand-outs? Middle class has not changed the election results in this country -- it is the rural poor and urban youth. Picking battles and ensuring they come back into power should be the first goal. Not to say the other needs are not important, but that they can and should wait to ensure we have consolidation in our ranks.

[Schmidt]

Posting in full

Article by RV - lists many interesting proposals to energize the economy and the core voting base

https://www.pgurus.com/importance-of-co ... cal-party/


Every political party in the world has its core constituency and parties try to keep them in good humor when in power and use them for propaganda when out of power. Increasingly parties are finding it tough to keep their core constituencies particularly if they are not left oriented.


The core constituency helps a party in conducting meetings and creating an atmosphere of “winning” before a poll.

In the US, the core constituency of Republicans is Church going/ gun toting/ white adult male with less than a college education. Plus you can add pro-life anti-homosexuals’ anti- blacks’ anti-globalization etc. But that addition is selective in regions. Similarly, Democrats have left liberals, minorities, unions, well-educated/ agnostic, pro-choice, pro-homosexual and young. Again some of these are region specific.

In India, many regional parties are caste specific— the Samajwadi Party (SP) of Yadavs and Muslims / Pattali Makkal Katchi (PMK) of Vanniars/ Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) of Scheduled Castes etc. Congress has been generally been all-encompassing with everything to everybody in the past. But post-Sonia it is perceived as anti-Hindu and Pro minorities.

In the case of Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) it is middle class both current and aspiring; small traders/ businessmen; Pro-Hindutva youngsters; Hindu women and some working-class men. Communists used to have trade unions and student unions but after the fall of Berlin wall, their ideology has a lesser impact and even in their strongholds like Bengal they have become a “has been”.

The core constituency helps a party in conducting meetings and creating an atmosphere of “winning” before a poll. Of course, core constituency alone is not enough to win a poll. It should be perceived by non-core that you will take care of their interests also when in power – and that will make them vote for you.

But if core constituency is alienated then polls become tougher since non-core will not show the “josh” to create the atmosphere. In the current context, there are signs that the core constituency is slowly becoming unhappy with the ruling party.

Textbooks carry the same old themes of Nehruvian era praising Moguls and their achievements. Not much on Cholas/ Rashtrakutas/ Pallavas/ Vijayanagara etc. The history books, written by communists which include discredited Aryan Invasion Theory – AIT still dominate school textbooks.

First are the Education and Culture. One finds the vicious Right to Education Act [RTE] which is applicable to only Hindu educational institutions has not been dealt with. One view is that this has given rise to peculiar situations like Lingayats demanding separate religious status since they perceive that as a minority religion they are safer in India than being part of Hindu Pantheon. Incidentally, a large number of well-known educational institutions is run by them in Karnataka.

The point is that if any parts of Hindus feel that they are better off being outside-as a separate religion then it hurts the core principles of the ruling party.

Not only that, many Hindu schools are getting closed since they are not able to meet the rigors of RTE. These are well documented in many Pro-BJP journals and papers. But there is an eloquent silence from Government more so the HRD ministry. It has two choices—either scarp the RTE or include all institutions – irrespective of religious denomination -into that. But HRD does not want to do either and makes the middle class carry the cross of the earlier UPA mischief.

Textbooks carry the same old themes of Nehruvian era praising Moguls and their achievements. Not much on Cholas/ Rashtrakutas/ Pallavas / Vijayanagara etc. The history books, written by communists which include discredited Aryan Invasion Theory – AIT still dominate school textbooks. Tamil Nadu textbooks carry chapters on E V Ramasami Naicker (EVR) without mentioning that he was a British Agent and declared -1947 Aug 15th as a day of mourning.

Even a simple change about calling our devatas as “Murtis” from “idols” has not been attempted.

In all, the HRD has been a major failure vis-vis the core constituency.

Personal income tax rates should be 10 and 20 percent and exemption should be Rs.10 lakhs.

The recent Supreme Court (SC) judgment about banning the sale of crackers in Delhi etc. in the name of pollution is an assault on the customs and traditions of Hindus about Diwali. Plus it entails huge employment base. Without understanding the concerns of the core-constituency many leaders have jumped into the liberal/ green bandwagon and shouting about banning crackers everywhere.

As far as economic issues are concerned small traders/businessmen are significantly affected by both demonetization and GST. Govt should have kept the GST limit as Rs.10 crores instead of the 20Lakhs etc. So many representations made by Pro-BJP leaning trade and business groups. But the Finance ministry has been totally silent.

Personal income tax rates should be 10 and 20 percent and exemption should be Rs.10 lakhs.

That is how you electrify your constituency – not by giving speeches about India becoming digital in 5 years.

The approach that anything cash is black is dangerous. Cash is important for roadside vendors and millions of self-employed plumbers/ fitters/ carpenters/ electricians.

Many ministries can be pruned to reduce costs and provide fuel to the middle class at say Rs.40. It will alter the contour of debate by drastically reducing transport cost of essentials. Is the Govt. listening?

Mudra Act should have been passed to cater to these segments by integrating money lenders into the market. Alas, that Act has been stopped by RBI and Finance Ministry to protect turfs.

Credit availability has become precarious for small businesses from unorganized markets which are their mainstay. Organized Banking is throttled by imported ideas of NPA etc. to satisfy US experts and not Indian commerce and Trade.

On corruption, the perception is that the Government is not serious or the right hand of Government does not know what the left hand is doing. Most of the cases like that of 2G/ Maran etc. are at sessions level – a long way to go till SC. Cases like that of Tharoor or Karthi or NDTV have not even started. One case National Herald [NH] is in progress with entire top Congress leaders on bail but that is not due to Government but a private complaint by Dr. Swamy. Mallya escaped under the nose of this Government and public is tired. The government must have constituted a group of experts to expedite all trails from day one.

Many ministries can be pruned to reduce costs and provide fuel to the middle class at say Rs.40. It will alter the contour of debate by drastically reducing transport cost of essentials. Is the Govt. listening?

On the illicit money kept abroad, the less said the better. Not much action is seen other than some sealed covers given by the Special Investigation Team (SIT) to the SC—no one knows the net result.

It is required to enthuse the core constituency by actions perceived as supportive of their interests. Thinking that anyhow they will be with us is a dangerous assumption since core constituency by being passive can also alter poll results. A leader’s popularity alone will not be enough to enthuse the core constituency. Recall that Vajpayee was the most popular in 2004 but the party did not win.

It is important to stress that economic development alone cannot win polls but perceived economic failure can be catastrophic.

Can we expect major initiatives to get back the core constituency – enthuse them to become frenzied supporters as in 2014? Josh of the core is the essence of winning elections.

[Schmidt]

>>"Our" (as in the Hindu identity voters) best chance as of now is to pressurize BJP from within to move towards a less indifferent stance towards Hindu issues than is the case at present.
Middle class has not changed the election results in this country -- it is the rural poor and urban youth. Picking battles and ensuring they come back into power should be the first goal. Not to say the other needs are not important, but that they can and should wait to ensure we have consolidation in our ranks.

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The requirements of the core base are not very difficult to realise - most of them are cultural / legal / educational reliefs from injustices

They don't cost a dime in finances

Whereas helping the poor and rural demographics - this has been going on for 70 years at varying pace / efficacy , and will cost a bomb and take time as well - the glass will remain half full for a long time to come

[Indrad]

ramdas kadam in MH does a U turn says no question of banning firecrackers

Nanded

Municipal Corporation Election 2017 results LIVE: Congress races towards pole position with leads in 44 seats, BJP leads in 2

[abhijit]

Posting in full

Article by RV - lists many interesting proposals to energize the economy and the core voting base

https://www.pgurus.com/importance-of-co ... cal-party/


Every political party in the world has its core constituency and parties try to keep them in good humor when in power and use them for propaganda when out of power. Increasingly parties are finding it tough to keep their core constituencies particularly if they are not left oriented.

...

It is important to stress that economic development alone cannot win polls but perceived economic failure can be catastrophic.

Can we expect major initiatives to get back the core constituency – enthuse them to become frenzied supporters as in 2014? Josh of the core is the essence of winning elections.

So true. I swear I did not read this article before posting my last comment. If the feeling is common then we are in trouble.

reposting my comment

If BJP is only and only thinking about vikas, betting everything on it and become completely isolated from hindu causes then better do and show vikas of everyone. Because when vikas of everyone fails dont come to hindus asking for votes on hindu problems. It will be just like congress betting their everything on secularism and when it doomed they had nothing left to give.

[Marten]

>>"Our" (as in the Hindu identity voters) best chance as of now is to pressurize BJP from within to move towards a less indifferent stance towards Hindu issues than is the case at present.
Middle class has not changed the election results in this country -- it is the rural poor and urban youth. Picking battles and ensuring they come back into power should be the first goal. Not to say the other needs are not important, but that they can and should wait to ensure we have consolidation in our ranks.

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The requirements of the core base are not very difficult to realise - most of them are cultural / legal / educational reliefs from injustices

They don't cost a dime in finances

Whereas helping the poor and rural demographics - this has been going on for 70 years at varying pace / efficacy , and will cost a bomb and take time as well - the glass will remain half full for a long time to come

I'm not disagreeing. Fundamentally, the goal is to address our issues. However, their current focus should be to get reelected.
Would expect two or three initiatives to move forward: RJB, Tax breaks for the middle class, and probably RTE. Handing over temple ownership etc. is just a far away dream. With the level of corruption and nepotism being what it is, quite difficult as well.

[abhijit]

ramdas kadam in MH does a U turn says no question of banning firecrackers

Must be a huge brick came flying towards him from Matoshree.

[Aditya_V]

But isnt this inability to have some patience, having some unity even if dont agree why most politicians dont take RW seriously and pander to minorities. INC has been able to win many elections with its policies targeting specific groups and they could always push thier policies through RS and LS easily. Why not wait for a similar situation and try to make some political parties irrelevant first.

No matter how weak or illogical thier argument the CPi(M) cadre, INC voters always vote for them en masse. This side is always a once in 10 year reactionary vote.

I am sure people Namo and Amit shah who have personally targeted are aware of certain issues, but they can be targeted once RS majority is also achieved, but they would like to do it quickly before the other side reacts. No point putting out everything in the open, so opposition takes time to develop thier strategies.

[Schmidt]

And why is Robert Vadra not in jail yet ??

Have they even framed charges ??

A clear case of nepotism , conflicts of interest , bending of land certification rules to accommodate him , even tax evasion and money laundering

Still no forward movement in prosecuting the slimy narcissistic bugger with a terrible fashion sense to boot ( he and his pink trousers )

[Aditya_V]

And why is Robert Vadra not in jail yet ??

Have they even framed charges ??

A clear case of nepotism , conflicts of interest , bending of land certification rules to accommodate him , even tax evasion and money laundering

Still no forward movement in prosecuting the slimy narcissistic bugger with a terrible fashion sense to boot ( he and his pink trousers )

Some deals and offcourse, remember they are ones who have recruited the Police Force, Judiciary, Babus and assorted Gondas. Anyone taking a step against them needs to be certain they are going to come to power to have the kind of clout in the past, else thier family can be wiped out with no mention in the Media.

Do you think Khattar can fire all of them overnight? I worked with many bureaucrats regarding UPA time misdoings, while evidence is clear as daylight and their is heavy pressure from the top, worry for personal safety and kin is making people take diplomatic decisions.

Let me see you don't want to even put your real name in an online forum but you want others to take immediate risky decesions. Godhra case takes 15 years against relatively small pawns and you want these people to risk everything taking on Damad ji. It will be done only INC loses at least 2 elections and the unions and other parts of the C-system start cracking up.

[Mahakala]

Meanwhile a Harsh mandar toady lawyer has drafted a "progressive" UCC and with the signature of "eminent citizens" such as irfan habib, tm krishna, gul panag, mukul kesavan and others and submitted to a judicial commission setup by the law ministry for drafting a ucc that they'll later consider. This is how they behave when they're out of power.
Communal violence bill anyone remembers? Con has renamed it to MaSuKa and is pushing it everytime there is an anti-muslim crime. If they'd been in power, they would have pushed both into laws by now.
There is no "sequential progress" process when it comes to hindu issues. That is what those who push for patience do not realise. Learn from history. We've had so many cases of a bright spark fluttering and dying leading to carnage. Modi is one. We have to chase 350. Can't wait for 35th over to start hitting. If we don't roll back EJ funded laws that exist right now which are patently anti-hindu, you're adding more to the opposition kitty. Every convert is an additional enemy or something acc to Vivekananda. Now, you don't even need to convert. You can remain a hindu and become a DIE and that is enough to deliver blows from within. That is why vikas can go on. You also need to push back on the civilisational front. That is where BJP has fallen short. No point crying later. Nobody is saying wont vote bjp again (except for fellowsin jammu) but want bjp to do what they wanted them to do when they voted for them. Simble.

[abhijit]

A humble suggestion: Let this not be other religious entities bashing discussion. It will land everyone in trouble. Lets push the government towards strengthening our culture, values without being seen orthodox/non-progressive/threat to other communities.

[Hari Seldon]

So do you think the RSS is not involved in the entire process? Where did 4 CMs and 1 PM turn up from? Were they nurtured with a careful disdain of Hindu issues> No! They didn't win using RJB as a plank -- they used Vikas. They fought corruption and for good governance, with visible results. That, and the promise that RJB would worked upon. That the measures are not Hindu enough by your standards doesn't mean the RSS/BJP or indeed MAD do not know how to win elections any more.

Theek hai.

So environment mantri of the union cabinet going all-hail on a court judgment to ban firecrackers till 1-Nov only, precisely till Diwali gets over is "Hindu enough" by your standards then?

OK, so MAD won polls in the past (with or w/o RSS backing). Sure. That means they're infalliable now?

The RW parties will emerge, from within the RSS fold itself. Give it ten years and we will have one more viable unit at least in a few states.

Time will tell. We'll see. I am yet to see a right of center Indic party bootstrap itself and do well on its own anywhere in India in the past 3 decades. Period. And the demoghraphics are tilting against us Indics every single year, whilst we wait.

I understand you disagree, I can live with that.

I don't expect Rajasthan or Haryana to vote BJP in again. Same in Punjab or Delhi. Uttarakhand also sways each election, just as TN does. Given this, what should Modi be doing? Alienating the poor who're waiting to be divided by caste-based equations or try and unify them using visible measures that benefit them without being hand-outs?

Ah, classic bait-and-switch.

You seem to insinuate that the Hindu identity voter is not-OK with Modi doing pro-poor things.

Where did you get this idea, sir? And then to smoothly palm it off onto the Yindoo voter!

To re-re-quote an old Americanism.

You can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Let Modi ji do the right long-term thing politically by courting the vote of the economically weaker class all that and more. Is it too much to ask that he also chew gum also as he walks?

Especially if he's *not* required in any way to contradict his sabka-saath sabka-vikas theme. A level playing field for our community ain't theoretically a hit on any other, no?

Middle class has not changed the election results in this country -- it is the rural poor and urban youth. Picking battles and ensuring they come back into power should be the first goal. Not to say the other needs are not important, but that they can and should wait to ensure we have consolidation in our ranks.

Non sequitor. See above for why.

The two goals are not necessarily at loggerheads.

But the current course and eloquent silences from 10 RCR do risk jeopardizing the re-election. Why the need for BJP to score self-goals with the likes of harshvardhan's antics, hain ji?

Just saying only. With all due respect and all that. Feel free to have the last word on this.

Peace.

[Hari Seldon]

BTW, and just in time pertinent to our discussion on how maybe RSS is party to Modi sarkar's inaction on the HIndu issues front...

Mohan Bhagwat raises issues of RTE exemption to Minority schools

Demands the same for "bahusankhyak" or majority/ Hindu-run schools too.

And why bl00dy not, eh?