The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

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chetak
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:54 pm

I am now totally confused, is she "excommunicated" or is she "communicating"?? in such a taqiya way such that the mullahs or the muslims bear NO responsibility??

Is this the same "lady" whom the kerala police "escorted" to the Ayappan Temple so as to facilitate her entry??


Abhijit Majumder Verified account @abhijitmajumder

That image is what Rehana Fathima put up as her Facebook cover. Those toasting her attempt to enter #Sabarimala should try sending Kurt Westergaard, maker of Prophet cartoons, to a mosque anywhere in the world and see what happens.
Selectively kicking Hindus can’t be secularism.



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Dr. SUDHANSHU SULTANIA (Sociologist) @1984SUDHANSHU Oct 20

Replying to @abhijitmajumder

On 18.04.2018, I already complained against Artist of this obscene paintings to @DelhiPolice @CPDelhi . but @DCP_CCC_Delhi didn't register even a F.I.R. against culprit.



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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by srikumar » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:24 pm

Vikas
First, no ji for me.
Being an ex MLA is an ex position and not position of current authority. Health minister- any gaon ka gawaar can become health minister. Means nothing to me.

There were people present with current authority. They have the first responsibility to act, whether they are the event organizers or politicians. They can and should be held responsible. I don't know if Sidhu has a current position but if he did, he has a greater responsibility to act even if he was not at the scene. It would be easy enough to drive there if he was in Amritsar that day. And he would have been called immediately.

One problem with people trying to order relief is too many people can add confusion and chaos.
For this reason I am against too many ministers visiting relief centers and 'supervising operations '. They just distract from the task that professionals or good samaritans are doing. You don't need 10 or 20 managers. From the reports there were enough organizers and politicians there and they should have acted (and maybe they did act). To me what these people did or did not do is more relevant than Sidhu's wife did.

As for lyIng, I have no idea what she said/did. Sure you can castigate her for lying, I have no comment on that.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:48 am

Needed Urgently: A Ruthless Counter To The Propaganda Of The Old Congress-Left Ecosystem


Needed Urgently: A Ruthless Counter To The Propaganda Of The Old Congress-Left Ecosystem
by Jay Bhattacharjee, Oct 21, 2018.


Snapshot
Leaders of the ruling dispensation, though committed to the Indic civilisation cause, are rather unprepared to counter the disinformation and half-truths propaganda, and wilting under the slightest pressure.


In a half-baked democracy like ours, there are major fault-lines that have been left behind by the departing British colonials. These fissures, of course, were originally created by more than 700 years of ruthless invasion by Central Asian marauders.

This messy and creaking structure was then left pretty much unaltered by the assorted groups and cabals that were in power in Raisina Hill from 1947 onwards, till the new dispensation assumed office in May 2014. It was never going to be easy for the administration in the block to clean the Augean stables, and this was factored in by the Bharatiya Janata Party-National Democratic Alliance (BJP-NDA) regime after it took over. However, it was soon obvious that the current dispensation was woefully unprepared and miserably underpowered when it came to tackling the rearguard elements of the earlier rulers.

This author has recently attempted to build an analytical framework to study how oligarchies and elites defeated in political battles try to undermine their successor regimes by all means, fair or foul, mostly the latter.

However, since my article was published earlier this year in March, the situation has become more volatile in the country. The Congress-United Progressive Alliance (UPA) agitprop machine has gone into overdrive and has launched numerous attacks on the Union government, concentrating most of the barrage on Prime Minister Narendra Modi. The focus of their attack has been the Rafale fighter deal for the Indian Air Force which was finalised in September 2016 after more than a decade of stop-go negotiations.

Veritably, the Rafale (which, in French, means ‘a gust of wind’) contract has provided the sinking Congress-UPA ship a major boost, almost resuscitating it from the morgue. The ramshackle vessel has picked up speed and is launching repeated salvos on the BJP-NDA juggernaut. Rahul Gandhi, in particular, is giving this matter all the attention with his vocal supporters in the mainstream media (specially the English language units) trying to make hay while the sun shines. The level of the debate in the print and electronic media is shrill, uninformed, woefully twisted and distorted. The media organisations that are even remotely objective in this war of words can be barely counted on one’s fingertips.

The ruling dispensation is strangely defensive and confused when it attempts to counter the assault. The ministers and the party spokespersons appear tongue-tied and unprepared in this battle where no quarter is asked and none given. Although these lapses cannot be pardoned, since history is always written and/or revised by the victors, we should look back and assess how similar scenarios were enacted in history for these offer invaluable lessons.

The first lesson from the past that I will spell out for the readers is the conspiracy against the Popular Front government in France in the mid-1930s launched by the opponents of the radical regime. These included the country’s big business groups, the old guard remnants like the aristocracy, the Catholic Church and sympathisers of the Nazi – Fascist regimes in Germany and Italy.

As in other European countries, France, in the 1930s, saw extreme social tensions and class warfare. Coupled with this, was the fall-out of the Great Depression from the late 1920s and early 1930s. In January 1933, Hitler had come to power in neighbouring Germany and a year later, the mobilisation of a large number of right-wing forces and former Royalists brought about the downfall of the French government.

The Popular Front (PF) won the parliamentary elections in 1936, and the Social Democrat, Leon Blum, formed a government with the Radicals, that was supported by the Communists. Encouraged by what appeared to be a favourable electoral result, the working class undertook a series of strikes and factory takeovers that spread like wildfire and culminated in a general strike which mobilised two-and-a-half million people. France was on the brink of a revolution.

The PF government introduced the much-need social-welfare and economic reforms, in the form of wage increases, a 40-hour working week, paid annual vacation and medical assistance to workers in various industries.

The right to strike and to collective bargaining was also institutionalised. All this led to major opposition from big business, the church and the residual aristocracy. The extreme right wing took on the PF government both in Parliament and also outside.

Opposition to the Front Populaire (FP) was not limited to propaganda. An extremist group called the Cagoule tried to launch a military putsch against the government but, fortunately, it failed. However, a number of persons associated or sympathetic to the FP were murdered. A brutal press campaign against the government was launched. Roger Salengro, the Socialist Minister for the Interior (equivalent to our Home Minister), was falsely accused of cowardice in the battlefront during the First World War and was driven to suicide.

The parallels to contemporary India will not be lost on our readers, though exact equivalences, understandably, will not be present in every instance. The important phenomenon that one should be able to identify clearly is the ever-present threat of widespread internal disturbances (engineered by the opposition) that confronted the PF regime.

We now come to the other historical example of entrenched oligarchies conspiring to destabilise a legitimate government. This is the coup against the popular Republican Government in Spain in the 1930s. Here, again, the forces on either side of the divide were broadly the same. The opponents of the Spanish Republican government, elected in a free democratic election by a substantial majority, comprised the Catholic clergy, the landed gentry, and the upper-class officers in the armed forces.

Unlike in France, Spain saw a large-scale military conflict between the legitimate Republican administration and the coup forces led by General Franco (comprising the officer class and the colonial troops from Spanish enclaves in Africa). These insurgent army units were overtly supported by Nazi Germany and Mussolini’s Italy, while the Republican government’s armed forces were denied arms supplies because of an international embargo led by Britain and France.

In the collective memories of our generation and even the younger ones, the Spanish Civil War resonates strongly after all these decades. There is George Orwell’s landmark Homage to Catalonia to start with, which is an autobiographical work and a socio-political study at the same time. Then there is Ernest Hemingway’s epic novel For Whom the Bell Tolls and its equally iconic cinematic version (starring the incomparable Ingrid Bergman and Cary Grant). Finally, there is the musical legacy of artistes like Pete Seeger and his haunting Jarama Valley.

The lessons of the Spanish Civil War for contemporary India are many. The primary one is the theme of this essay – how elites, oligarchies and well-endowed pressure groups (often supported materially and financially from foreign countries) can derail the democratic structure and its functioning in a country. Orwell’s summary verdict on this tragic historical episode was that Francisco Franco’s military uprising against Spain’s elected government “was an attempt not so much to impose fascism as to restore feudalism.”

I do not fully endorse this conclusion but the Indian experience of the Yadavs, Gandhis et al indicate that there is a lot of substance to this train of thought. The BJP-NDA redux of 2014 upset the apple carts of many semi-feudal barons and these forces are not the ones that will lie down and fade away.

Before concluding this analysis, we must remember two other instances where blatant fabrications and lies have been used to materially affect political decision-making in democratic countries. The first is the instance of the fabricated Zinoviev Letter published by the British newspaper The Daily Mail just before the British general elections in October 1924. This blatant forgery was a crucial factor in the resounding Conservative victory over the ruling Labour government.

It took the British government more than 75 years to admit that the Zinoviev Letter was an outrageous forgery that vitally affected British political history. The country’s secret service MI6 was most certainly a primary suspect in this cloak-and–dagger affair. What should be of considerable interest to Indians are the similar attempts in our shores to derail official decision-making, even in highly sensitive areas like defence and national security.

The other example of fabricated lies, distortion and untruths to influence international opinion and political decisions is the notorious Protocols of the Elders of Zion, first released In Tsarist Russia in 1903. This crude and obscene publication purported to show that Jews were planning a global hegemony by subverting the morals of “gentiles”.

Although proved to be bogus in the course of a Swiss trial in 1934-35, the publication was extensively used by some Christian and anti-Semitic forces to further their agenda. Henry Ford contributed a large sum of money in the 1920s to print an English translation of the publication for distribution in the US. The Islamic world still believes in the authenticity of the document and regularly uses it in its propaganda efforts against Israel and anti-Islamic movements.

At this juncture, what we see in India is blatant disinformation and crude propaganda by a large coalition of forces opposed to the Indic civilisation cause. The current government is clearly perceived to be favourable to this cause, although some observers would say that it has actually been rather feeble, hesitant and defensive on this front.

This brings me to the last issue about the “wallflower” stance of the leaders and spokespersons of the present dispensation when they are confronted with untruths, fabrications, forgeries and half-truths. They seem to be wilting under the slightest pressure. Worse, they are very deficient in doing their basic research necessary to counter the propaganda war against them. Surely, this is a disservice to the larger cause that they had sworn to defend when they faced the national electorate in 2014.

Research has conclusively shown the importance of the illusory truth effect (also known as the validity effect, truth effect or the reiteration effect). This is the tendency to believe information to be correct after repeated exposure. When persons are called upon to assess truth, they first assess whether the information is in line with their understanding or if it is familiar. Clearly, the agitprop team in 24 Janpath in Lutyens Delhi is very familiar with all these techniques.

We have to end with George Orwell and his 1984: In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy.

Jay Bhattacharjee is a policy and corporate affairs analyst based in Delhi.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:58 am

Why The Lutyens Mafia Is A Threatened Lot Today

Why The Lutyens Mafia Is A Threatened Lot Today
by Jay Bhattacharjee, Mar 09, 2018,

Snapshot
The members of this exclusive club that screams “entitlement” and “privilege” as a matter of right and heredity, are a threatened lot today, and have turned to sabotage.


Ever since the regime change that India witnessed in May 2014, the country has seen determined resistance to the new order from the well-entrenched oligarchy that had called the shots for the previous six-odd decades since 1947. This happened despite the overwhelming majority of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and National Democratic Alliance (NDA) alliance in the Lok Sabha and in the majority of states.

The nationalist forces or the Indic civilisation advocates were routinely outmanoeuvred, outsmarted, outwitted and outgunned by the Lutyens Zone (LZ) cabal and the secularist storm-troopers (hereafter SS), a term which this commentator pleads guilty of having used for the first time more than a decade ago. These two groups often overlap each other and invariably function in tandem. Both of them fine-tuned their techniques during the Congress regimes; indeed, some analysts say that this lot has been practising their craft for hundreds of years, under the Muslim rule and then the British.

It must be stressed that the LZ term is not restricted to folks, who are residents of the exclusive municipal area in India’s capital, named after the imperialist architect Sir Edwin Lutyens, who wanted to create an island of Pax Britannica amidst the dust and heat of north India. Physical location is not a prerequisite for the LZ cachet. LZ people are paid-up members of an exclusive club that screams “privilege” and “entitlement” as a matter of right and heredity. As one of them confided to me many decades ago, LZ is a frame of mind. You can be born into it, and you can also be inducted into it, if you qualify later on.

As far as the SS are concerned, they have a deep animus against India’s ancient culture and civilisation. In their eyes, the thousands of years of Indic civilisation amount for nothing. It requires another detailed study to unravel how and why the SS internalised their ideology.

To return to the hurly-burly of present-day Indian politics, many of the members and leaders in the new administration were so often humiliated and defeated by their old political foes that some serious questions started being posed by observers and analysts.

What were the reasons behind the repeated debacles of the new regime and its sorry record in the battles and skirmishes that were being fought so regularly? Some facile answers were trotted out by both sides, whether by the actual combatants or their apologists. It would be useful if we were to look at these explanations and subject them to some tests.

The first explanation that did the rounds was that the new occupants of Raisina Hill were wet behind their ears and, therefore, were easy meat (with all its resonances). The second reason cited was that the oligarchs of the Congress, its allies and their supporters had humongous resources at their command, parked in India and abroad. It did not matter where, because of the fungible nature of financial assets and instruments these days. With one stroke on a keyboard, money and financial resources can be transferred wherever they are required.

More ingenious assessments were also trotted out, sometimes by the apologists of the new regime, to explain their dismal performance record in some areas, and very often by the old guard, to sow dissension in the new administration. This is the “fifth column” theory and it basically hinted that there are senior functionaries in the new government who are very close to the Congress cabal and did not really want the BJP-NDA government to do well at all, so that the old gang could come back to power in the 2019 general elections.

Then, there are the doomsday club members, who kept proclaiming that India has too many civilisational, cultural and religious fault lines to allow any type of uniformity in rules, regulations and management in political, social and economic matters. For want of a better term, we can label this lot as the India International Centre/JNU intellectuals and jholawallahs.

Finally, there are the beneficiaries of the loot-and-scam raj of the previous Congress-United Progressive Alliance junta, who are feeling very threatened by the new regime’s proclaimed ideology of good governance and zero tolerance of graft and corruption. These people want their nemesis to be jettisoned from power at the earliest and any tactics are fair in this war for survival. They, therefore, put forward a whole range of hypotheses about the inbuilt defects of the new government and its underlying thought processes.

If we look at each of these hypotheses separately, we will not get a satisfactory and complete explanation of the scenario. In other words, the full assessment of the non-performance of the new regime will still elude us. We will, perforce, have to construct a comprehensive model of how political frameworks are weakened and sabotaged from within and outside, in order to engineer their eventual collapse.

At the outset, we should remember that the 2014 general elections and the installation of the Narendra Modi government was a political tsunami for the entrenched oligarchy and elites in India. Our body politic, that had remained more or less stagnant for 67 years, showed signs of a beginning of fundamental change. The change of guard in Raisina Hill was by no means a full transformation, but a baby step in that direction. Nevertheless, for the forces of status quo, this was perceived as an existential threat.

The entrenched groups which realised that their bailiwicks were in mortal danger are the following:

The bureaucracy at all levels
The entire judiciary
Crony capitalists ranging from the top business groups to the local kirana shop, all of whom thrived on tax evasion and looting the financial institutions
The managers of rural — often caste-based — vote banks, who do not want their roles as intermediaries to be diminished
Religious pressure groups, often financed from abroad, whose allegiances are to institutions based outside India
Academicians and “intellectuals” who had long supped from the deep pool of resources supplied by the previous rulers
Small/regional political parties that have acted as power brokers in some parts of the country and have built up critical mass and a war-chest of funds.
This list is not organised in any order of priority and/or importance. However, the above groups have a high degree of overlap with the LZ and the SS coteries defined earlier.


Soon after May 2014, these seemingly disparate cohorts started mobilising their resources and cementing their alliances to take on the new dispensation. The process of joining hands was hardly seamless, since the satraps in each of these groups were individuals who carefully guarded their bailiwicks.

It should be mentioned at this stage that the subject of disintegration of countries and nation-states has been studied extensively in the last few decades. The causes underlying the break-up of countries have been rigorously assessed by a number of scholars and researchers. Here we must distinguish between the collapse of regimes/ruling oligarchies within a country and the disintegration of a country as a whole.

We must emphasise that most countries that fall apart do so “not with a bang but with a whimper”. This was the conclusion of an incisive study in 2012 in the respected journal Foreign Policy. In this path-breaking essay, academics Daron Acemoglu and James A Robinson identified the major reasons that lead to countries imploding. While identifying the chronic failed states in sub-Saharan Africa, Asia and Latin America, the study zeroed in on some of the principal reasons why nations fail. They range from a “tilted playing field” in South Africa during apartheid, big men being very greedy (Egypt under Hosni Mubarak), elites blocking new technologies (in Austria and Russia in the early 20th century), to no law and order (in Somalia presently), a weak central government, and bad public services and political exploitation (in present-day Colombia, Peru and Bolivia).

The parallels with India, after more than six decades of woeful misrule of the Congress and its acolytes, are stark. The study also emphasises the importance of an effective centralised state. Without this, it is most difficult to ensure order, an effective legal system, basic public goods and systems for resolving disputes. This, again, will resonate with Indian social scientists.

What the Foreign Policy study of 2012 fails to identify is a scenario where a country’s collapse is brought about by opponents of structural reform and change that a new regime is attempting to bring about, when it assumes power by dislodging entrenched elites, as happened in India in May 2014. In other words, what we are seeing in India is tension created by the status quo advocates rather than disruption brought about by forces that seek change and reform.

In the present crisis that is gripping the country, the LZ coterie and the SS oligarchs are fighting a desperate war (albeit undeclared, at least till now) to forestall any fundamental change or reform that the BJP-NDA is attempting to bring about. The Indian scenario can be summarised as follows, without mincing words.

In the decades since Independence, the Congress juggernaut (along with its allies) had implanted itself in every nook and corner of the administrative and power structure of India. The present government was the first credible threat that the Gandhi-Nehru-Gandhi cabal had ever faced. The short interregnum that India saw earlier between 1977 and 1980 and 1999-2004 were minor distractions and kerfuffle for this power elite.

For 10 Janpath, the elections of 2014 were a combined earthquake and tsunami of epic scale. However, entrenched oligarchies do not disintegrate or descend into disarray. Their DNA does not have a panic button. Therefore, the coterie’s high command set into motion a scorched earth policy against the new regime.

This involved the utilisation of institutions and individuals in equal measure. The seven forces that were identified earlier have now been fully mobilised to engineer the collapse of the present regime, even if it entails the dismemberment of the Indian republic in its present form and, eventually, the Indian nation-state as we know it. Is this an alarmist view? Some observers, including a few in the nationalist camp too, would probably say so.

However, the empirical evidence stares us in the face. The decades of Congress corruption and abysmal governance have ensured that the Indian republic today is a leaking and rusting ship of state. Foreign Policy and the think tank Fund for Peace jointly compile an index that measures the weaknesses/strengths of most of the countries in the world. The annual study is called the Fragile States Index Report (earlier, the Failed States Index). The rankings are from 1 (the most fragile) to 178 (the most stable and the least vulnerable). In 2016-17, the 1st and the 2nd positions were held by South Sudan and Somalia. The strongest (and least fragile) position was that of Finland. The other three Scandinavian countries and Switzerland comprised the rest of the top five positions.

India’s rank is 72, just ahead of Jordan and behind Benin. We are in the category of “Warning” in this index. The only saving grace is that Pakistan is in the 17th position (along with Burundi), and Bangladesh occupies the 39th rank, both in the “Alert” category.


All this demonstrates that our country’s structural stability is far from safe. There is little room for complacency if India is subjected to sustained efforts from determined groups to destabilise and even dismember it. Moreover, history is replete with examples of rearguard hostilities and undeclared war adopted by displaced oligarchies and elites.

In recent history, we have seen, on a number of occasions, the phenomenon of snipers and fifth columnists left behind by fallen regimes. There were the White Russians after the Russian Revolution of 1917. A few centuries earlier, the Royalists in France after 1789, and the Empire Loyalists in the US after 1776, were examples of forces that have tormented successor regimes. Even now, we have the residual Taliban in Afghanistan that wreaks havoc every now and then.

The Breaking India forces are not really a figment of imagination in the minds of those who are sympathetic to the present dispensation in Raisina Hill. This is not just coffee house chatter that confronts our republic.

Jay Bhattacharjee is a policy and corporate affairs analyst based in Delhi.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:15 am

hanumadu wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:54 pm
Guys, how come no body is talking about Talib Hussain, the Kathua rape conspirator who is being accused of rape (in the a$$) by a Kashmir muslim JNU student. She was among those who invited him to speak at JNU. She claims there are other JNU students among her friends who he raped.

The article is in first post. She didn't give out her name though.

https://www.firstpost.com/india/metoo-i ... 13901.html

Guys, anybody have any new information on this terrible case in Kathua? Is the original accused Sanji Ram still the prime suspect? This Talib Hussain guy - is he simply an activist or actually a suspect himself? Google is not very helpful.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:36 pm

Primus wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:15 am
hanumadu wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:54 pm
Guys, how come no body is talking about Talib Hussain, the Kathua rape conspirator who is being accused of rape (in the a$$) by a Kashmir muslim JNU student. She was among those who invited him to speak at JNU. She claims there are other JNU students among her friends who he raped.

The article is in first post. She didn't give out her name though.

https://www.firstpost.com/india/metoo-i ... 13901.html

Guys, anybody have any new information on this terrible case in Kathua? Is the original accused Sanji Ram still the prime suspect? This Talib Hussain guy - is he simply an activist or actually a suspect himself? Google is not very helpful.



Pramod Kumar Singh @SinghPramod2784

More Pramod Kumar Singh Retweeted Kapil Mishra
#TalibHussain is a crook, a serial rapist who was eulogized by a section agenda driven media big guns. They all have gone silent after a JNU girl student exposed him for brutally raping her. No candle light marches, no protest, total radio silence.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Gus » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:53 am

ok..i am confused...what's going on with the CBI..somebody please give a brief. thanks

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Aditya_V » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:57 am

INC through AHmed Patel had control on Babus in CBI through past recruitments and postings, Modi wants the INC pasand folks in charge of diluting key cases out. Why should someone put a lifetime of relationship at risk for a temporary boss who may not last another year in office?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Triank » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:12 am

Gus wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:53 am
ok..i am confused...what's going on with the CBI..somebody please give a brief. thanks
its a fight between the commander & second-in-command of the CBI, reg. a bribery case. if you'd like to read some details (not too long), here they're:

CBI Raids Its Own Headquarters: The Fight Within, Explained
Snapshot
As the CBI raids the CBI office, here is everything you need to know about the case

Before we get to the story behind the drama unfolding at the CBI headquarters, here is a list of the important characters of this power ‘play’.

Alok Verma: CBI Director
Rakesh Asthana: Special Director accused of taking a bribe.
Sathish Sana: Has accused Asthana of seeking bribe.

Moin Qureshi: Businessman close to UPA.
Manoj Prasad and Somesh Prasad: Middlemen

The fight between the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) director Alok Verma and special director Rakesh Asthana, the first and second in command of the organisation, respectively, seems to have taken an ugly turn with the agency filing an FIR against the latter, naming him as an accused in a bribery case.

In its FIR, the CBI has alleged that Asthana took a bribe of Rs 3 crore to settle a case against a Hyderabad-based businessman, Sathish Sana, whose name had come up during an investigation in the Moin Qureshi case. Moin Qureshi, an Uttar Pradesh-based meat exporter allegedly close to the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) chairperson Sonia Gandhi, has been under the lens of various Indian agencies since 2014. He has been accused by the Enforcement Directorate of remitting funds through hawala channels to Dubai, London, and a few other destinations in Europe. Qureshi is believed to have had links with UPA-era CBI director A P Singh. Sana, reports say, is a key witness for the CBI and the ED in various cases against Qureshi.

The case against Asthana is based on a complaint filed by Sana. Other people named by Sana in the complaint include a deputy superintendent of police-rank CBI official, Devendra Kumar, middleman Manoj Prasad and his brother Somesh Prasad. Asthana was leading the investigation against Sana.

The CBI has claimed in its FIR that Manoj Prasad and Somesh Prasad had met Sana in Dubai and claimed that they would settle the case with him with the help of a CBI officer. After this, one of the two called an officer in the CBI, who claimed over the phone that he would settle the case for a bribe of Rs 5 crore and demanded Rs 3 crore from Sana in advance for the task. Sana was told by the duo that the officer he had spoken to was Asthana. To make him believe in the proposal, they showed him the WhatsApp display picture on the account belonging to the number they had called on.

Sana claims that he paid Rs 1 crore to Manoj Prasad at his office in Dubai and arrange payment of an amount of Rs 1.95 crore in Delhi in December 2017. Despite this, he says, he got a notice from the agency in the case in February. On raising the issue with the middlemen, he was asked to pay the remaining part of the bribe.

According to various reports, the investigating officer in the Qureshi money laundering case moved a proposal on 12 September for custodial interrogation of Sana. Asthana is said to have approved the proposal on 20 September.

“I told Manoj about this, to which he replied that this all is happening due to non-payment of balance of amount Rs 2 crore, to which I replied that the same will be made soon,” reads the statement given by Sathish Sana.

He claims that the remaining amount was paid to the middlemen in October.

In his defence, Asthana has accused CBI director Verma of instructing him not to examine Sana when he was summoned for questioning. In a letter to the cabinet secretariat, he as cited 10 instances of interference from Verma in the case.

However, according to the Economic Times, the Special Investigation Team under Asthana had managed to question Sana on 3 October. During the questioning, the daily says, Sana claims to have links with Verma through a senior Member of Parliament (MP) of Telugu Desam Party.

Manoj Prasad, one of the two middlemen, was arrested on 16 October. He has claimed that the bribes were being paid to Asthana on behalf of Qureshi. He has brought the number two of the Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW), Samant Kumar Goel, into the scene, alleging that he met Qureshi often and helped him get in touch with Asthana. The R&AW officer, however, has not been named by the CBI in the FIR.

On 19 October, three days after the CBI filed an FIR against him for allegedly taking a bribe from Sana, the case was taken away from Asthana.
To sum up, the CBI under Verma has accused Asthana of taking a bribe from Sana. Asthana, in response, has charged Verma with trying to scuttle the probe.

In the latest round, the CBI has raided its own headquarters and is reported to have arrested special director Asthana in the case.

The tussle between Asthana and Verma is not news. The two have been at loggerheads for some time now. In July, Verma, who was in Uruguay to attend an Interpol meeting, had instructed a junior officer to inform the Chief Vigilance Commissioner that Asthana was not authorised to attend a CBI selection committee meeting, necessary to induct new officers into the CBI, in his absence. Verma had also objected to Asthana’s appointment as special director in the CBI.

The internal rivalry seems to be fuelled by conflicting views on the Sandesara Group case, which involves around Rs 5,000 crore bank fraud. Asthana has been accused of involvement in this case and is reportedly under investigation. The Hindustan Times reported in September this year that Asthana believes the CBI has evidence that could have cleared his name in the case, but chose not to present it at the behest of Verma.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:27 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W91BB0QtcnQ

Sabarimala - What you don't know about it - J Sai Deepak


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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by syam » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:28 am

Sachin sir, I got banned from BRF for my post. We can continue it here.

People are quick to spell it like RSS/BJP. Both organisations are not same. RSS is mostly apolitical. I am speaking from experience. Please do critic BJP. They deserve it. They are bunch of politicians. But RSS folks are like you and I who have to work for their bread and butter. They are not involved in any big game.

CM himself saying Sangh elements are behind this protest. Large scale protests need good organisation. Please analyse it with out bias. It's not about giving credit to Sangh. At least people should give them respect. They are abusing sangh people more than the main culprit.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Aditya_V » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:51 am

People just need an excuse to support INC, after all they have done when in power and being abused by INC supporters, if people want to go them like bee to honey - then good luck to them. These people should never again complain when Minorities sometimes misbehave and are out of line. If is Hindus who chose their fate. It is the nature of the scorpion to sting, no point complaining when they are stung the next time.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:51 pm

syam wrote:RSS is mostly apolitical. I am speaking from experience. Please do critic BJP. They deserve it. They are bunch of politicians. But RSS folks are like you and I who have to work for their bread and butter. They are not involved in any big game.
Actually in Kerala, there would be more RSS activists than BJP workers. I mean RSS is a very strong organisation in Kerala with a good fan base. But in the Sabari Mala incidents their own Nagpur HQ actually ditched them. For the first few days the RSS (whose central command is far away from Kerala) kept on taking a line that it stood for women's equality etc. Even the KL state's RSS chief made similar statements (when they being Keralites should have known better). Where as RSS could have spear-headed the movement, they remained mute spectators. There could have been RSS workers at Sabari Mala, but that was due to devotion to Ayyappa than because of their RSS loyalties. And less said about the BJP, the better.
CM himself saying Sangh elements are behind this protest. Large scale protests need good organisation. Please analyse it with out bias. It's not about giving credit to Sangh. At least people should give them respect.
On the bolded part. People would give them credit, if their presence was felt by the devotees. Today the message going out is that Ayyappa devotees planned and strived hard to protect their belief system. And it was mainly social media which was used for communication (with some groups having lots of Sanghies as well). The Chief Minister now sees every Ayyappa devotee as a Sangh worker. That is his paranoia :lol:. And it is also his attempt to divide the Hindu society on caste lines, and find some group to lay the blame on. The CM is desperately trying to bring an upper caste v/s lower caste angle to this, and then grouping Sangh with the upper castes.
Aditya_V wrote:People just need an excuse to support INC, after all they have done when in power and being abused by INC supporters, if people want to go them like bee to honey - then good luck to them
In the case of Sabari Mala, the Congress sensed an opportunity, and quickly made the moves which would help them get some mileage. Ramesh Chennithala (state KPCC chief) can say that they are now getting their great lawyers (like AM Singhvi) to involve here. K. Sreedharan Pillai (state BJP chief) is only asking the state government to bring in some ordinance etc. He jolly well knows the stance of the CPI(M) led state government, and yet he repeatedly asks for this. He does not even know what his own party at the central government plans to do about this. And I don't think any steps are done by BJP KL unit to appraise their central party leadership and have some plans.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:09 pm

syam wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:28 am
Sachin sir, I got banned from BRF for my post. We can continue it here.

People are quick to spell it like RSS/BJP. Both organisations are not same. RSS is mostly apolitical. I am speaking from experience. Please do critic BJP. They deserve it. They are bunch of politicians. But RSS folks are like you and I who have to work for their bread and butter. They are not involved in any big game.

CM himself saying Sangh elements are behind this protest. Large scale protests need good organisation. Please analyse it with out bias. It's not about giving credit to Sangh. At least people should give them respect. They are abusing sangh people more than the main culprit.
Sorry. RSS gets absolutely no credit. They were supporting the SC order.

Devotees did all the heavy lifting. RSS should stick to cleaning up disasters because that's all they are good at. Now I understand why RSS has bred the likes of David Fadnavis. These people aren't to be seen as pro-Hindus.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:41 pm

India should stay out of this mess and not go making human rights sort of noises and pissing off a lot of countries needlessly.



Jamal Khashoggi: murder in the consulate




Jamal Khashoggi: murder in the consulate

After days of denial, Saudi Arabia has now said that the writer Jamal Khashoggi died in a ‘fist fight’ at its Istanbul consulate. Martin Chulov pieces together events surrounding this death and the investigation, and links to Riyadh’s controversial crown prince


Sun 21 Oct 2018

The Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul is a homely looking place, much smaller than it seems, nestled into a quiet suburban street, and painted pastel yellow. Were it not for a giant steel door and a green flag flying on the roof – both sporting two large swords – it could easily be an Ottoman-era cottage like many nearby.

Police barriers to the left of the building mark a point where visitors gather before being allowed through to apply for visas or tend to official business. On 2 October one Saudi citizen, Jamal Khashoggi, stood at the fence line, pondering his next move. Khashoggi needed to deal with paperwork that proved he had the legal right to marry the woman nervously standing with him that day, his new Turkish fiancee, Hatice Cengiz. He paced the barricade for around 20 minutes, removed his two phones from his blazer and gave them to Cengiz. “Wish me luck,” Khashoggi said. “This will be a birthday present,” she replied.

With those last fateful words, the Saudi dissident stepped past a barrier and walked towards the consulate. A camera on the roof of a nearby guard’s hut captured him purposefully approaching the steel gate. A waiting guard stepped aside and let him pass. It was 1:14pm; the last time Khashoggi was seen alive.

In the extraordinary 19 days since his disappearance and death, the fate of the 59-year old columnist and critic has steadily been pieced together. What happened inside the consulate walls has been traced to the doors of the Saudi royal court, sparked revulsion around the world, exposed the kingdom like no other event since the twin terror attacks of 9/11, and seen Washington and Riyadh shamelessly concoct a cover-up to protect their mutual interests and attempt to shield the powerful heir to the throne, Mohammed bin Salman.

In the early hours of Saturday, after unrelenting global scrutiny, Saudi Arabia finally offered its explanation of what happened to Khashoggi, abandoning two weeks of denials that it had played any role. Its version – that he was killed accidentally during a fist fight – came as Turkish investigators and global intelligence agencies prepared to table an entirely different account of a premeditated state-sanctioned hit; its conclusions drawn, not from a political fudge, but old-fashioned police work and cutting-edge spy tradecraft.

Turkey has also been busy cultivating the court of public opinion. Much of its case against Saudi Arabia has been laid bare through piecemeal leaks by authorities, which have described a conspiracy to assassinate one of Prince Mohammed’s most potent critics, in a building regarded by convention to be Saudi sovereign territory. The plot, the Turks allege, was put into motion within hours of Khashoggi attending the consulate four days earlier when he was turned away and asked to return the following Tuesday.

This is the story of the last few days of Khashoggi’s life; of the investigation that pieced together his fate, and of his legacy – much of it yet to be written – as the region, and beyond, grapple with the aftermath of a crude political hit gone spectacularly wrong.

When the door was closed behind him, Khashoggi was ushered to the second floor of the building, to the office of the consul general. Such a gesture would have befitted someone of his status in Saudi society – a man who had advised senior royals, including the former ambassador to London and Washington, and the intelligence chief, Turki al-Faisal.

Khashoggi would have had little reason to fear as he sat down in a guest chair opposite the desk of Mohammed al-Otaibi, the consul general who had personally called him and invited him back to finalise his papers, after the failed attempt the previous Friday.

Khashoggi, however, was not the only stranger in the building. Waiting in nearby rooms were 15 other men, all members of the state’s security apparatus. They had arrived in Istanbul earlier that day on two private jets, both of which were routinely leased by the Saudi government from a jet base at Riyadh airport. The jets’ tail markings were HZ-SK1 and HZ-SK2. Flight tracking software showed one of the planes landing in Istanbul just after 3am on 2 October. The second landed at Ataturk airport just after noon.

Nine men on the first flight checked into the Mövenpick hotel in the city’s Levent district, where they were caught on in-house cameras passing through security and checking in. From the top-floor windows, the men could almost see the nearby consulate.

Among the guests were Maher Abdulaziz Mutreb, a colonel who is attached to the crown prince’s security detail, and Salah Muhammed al-Tubaigy, the head of forensics in the kingdom’s General Intelligence Directorate. Later that morning, and before Khashoggi’s visit, Mutreb was filmed by the consulate’s security camera walking towards the door. Also believed to be with him are three other members of the crown prince’s personal detail, including Nayif Hassan al-Arifi, Mansour Othman Abahussein and Walid Abdullah al-Shihri.

By the time the arrivals had settled in, Turkish employees of the consulate were taking advantage of a surprise afternoon off. They had been sent home before noon after being told by Saudi bosses that an important diplomatic delegation was arriving for a meeting. The loyalties of those remaining in the building could not be questioned. The assembled hit squad was drawn from the most elite units of the Saudi security forces, whose fidelity had been repeatedly tested.

By the time the second planeload of passengers arrived at the consulate – not long before Khashoggi entered – what was about to take place was never going to be known beyond the building’s walls. Or so the assassins thought.

But in Turkey, and elsewhere, diplomatic missions can have ears.

Not long after Khashoggi entered the consul’s office, two men came into the room and dragged him away. Unbeknown to the Saudis, Turkish intelligence officials from the national spy agency, MIT, were listening in. Just how that happened has been the subject of much intrigue throughout the past fortnight, and has been central to the case against Riyadh.

Scenarios range from a bug placed in the consulate itself to a directional microphone focused on the building from outside – both technically within the realms of Turkey’s capabilities. Another possibility, being discussed in Turkey and elsewhere, is that some members of the hit squad recorded the abduction on their phones for trophy purposes, or to reveal back home. And that those recordings were either intercepted in real time or retrieved from at least one of the killers’ phones.

Whichever the case, Turkish officials soon had an audio soundtrack to a blatant and brutal murder inside the walls of the Saudi consulate, which has since become the bedrock of the case against Saudi Arabia.

Officials say the recording proves that Khashoggi was killed during seven horrific minutes in which he was first tortured, then mutilated, injected with a sedative, and finally dismembered.

According to the audio, a partial transcript of which was leaked last week to Yeni Safak, a pro-government newspaper, one of his killers is heard warning: “Shut up if you want to return to Saudi Arabia”.

As the mutilation starts, Tubaigy – the forensic scientist, who specialises in conducting autopsies – puts on headphones and is heard to say to his colleagues: “When I do this job, I listen to music. You should do that too.”

Khashoggi’s fingers were cut off while he was held down, the recording suggests. He was injected with a substance, which silenced him, then carried into another room – the third to be used in the gruesome killing – where he was lifted on to a meeting table then cut to pieces.

A Turkish official later said the Saudis had brought a bone saw to the consulate. “It is like Pulp Fiction,” the official told the New York Times.

On 5 October, three days after Khashoggi vanished, Turkey’s leadership, including Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, sat down in Ankara for a briefing from MIT’s chief Hakan Fidan and senior officers. Khashoggi had been butchered, they told the Turkish president, and they had incontrovertible proof.

Erdoğan had been friendly with the columnist. They shared a similar worldview, particularly of a role for political Islam in society, and he was aware of Khashoggi’s plans to set up a TV station in Istanbul, where he intended to relocate. After a year spent in Washington, where he had become a pointed critic of some aspects of Prince Mohammed’s reform programmes, Khashoggi wanted to start again, closer to home, his children, and a new wife. He was still planning to write columns for the Washington Post – maintaining the very platform and presence that had irritated the crown prince, but from a more familiar vantage point.

Senior Turkish officials say Erdoğan’s shock soon turned to anger. He told Fidan and others in the meeting to summon the Saudis, and share some of what they knew.

On Saturday 6 October the first meeting between Saudi and Turkish authorities took place. It did not go well. One official familiar with the meeting said the Saudis disavowed any knowledge of what had taken place. “They may have been truthful,” the official said. “This seemed to have been very tightly held and the people we spoke to might not have known.”

At midnight that day, with no response from Riyadh, Turkey played its first card, announcing to the Reuters news agency that it believed Khashoggi had been killed inside the Saudi consulate. Privately, officials began briefing that not only was he dead but his body had been cut up and carried away in bags.

The revelation set in motion a remarkable reaction. Wariness about Turkey’s scarcely believable claims soon gave way to a numbing realisation that Ankara had evidence and was prepared to use it. Names of the 15 Saudis who had travelled on passports using their real names were soon revealed. Selectively leaked images showed a black van parked outside the consulate entrance – of the type that investigators had said was used to carry Khashoggi’s remains to the nearby consul’s residence.

A still-frame of an apparent dummy run showing the van attempting to back into the consul’s underground garage the day before the hit was also made public – as was the fact that the consulate had since been repainted.

Ten days into the furore, Saudi’s monarch, King Salman, who has been largely disengaged since anointing his son as his successor 16 months ago, dispatched one of his most trusted envoys, Khaled al-Faisal, the governor of Mecca, to Ankara to meet with Erdoğan, a move widely viewed as the sidelined old guard being recommissioned to clean up the impetuous crown prince’s mess. “This is the way they used to do business,” a Turkish official said. “Send in a wise hand.”

Riyadh quickly released statements touting brotherly fraternity between two regional allies. But behind the scenes, things were not going well – at least not for the kingdom. “He was literally begging us for help,” the Turkish source said of Faisal. “They were really desperate.”

As the Turkish drip-feed continued, an element of revenge appeared to be driving it. This was the House of Saud’s death by a thousand cuts. Beyond a primal response though, has been a strategic objective. Erdoğan was not going to fold easily. Saudi Arabia’s belief that a cash strapped Turkish economy may drive Ankara’s calculations has proven ill-considered. A bounty to make the crisis go away is something that Riyadh could easily deal with, but Erdoğan has sought something far bigger – a chance to diminish a rival with a claim to speak for Sunni Islam and relaunch Turkey as an Islamic power base.

How to handle things has also been preoccupying Washington, increasingly desperate in its efforts to make the crisis disappear. Donald Trump has hitched many of his foreign policy ambitions to Prince Mohammed, whom he sees as a bulwark against Iran, a regional lifeline to Israel and an enthusiastic financier of the US economy.

Much of the US business elite has been enamoured by the crown prince and his social and economic reform programmes – and equally horrified by the revelations of the past week that end directly at his door. Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, has been a regular in Prince Mohammed’s Diwan or court, as has Mike Pompeo, the US secretary of state, whose two-day trip to Riyadh and Ankara last week heralded the Saudi concession in the early hours of Saturday.

A US official in the region said Pompeo was met with a blanket denial in the Saudi capital and cold realpolitik in Ankara. Both he and the CIA, which he led until recently, have reportedly been played a tape of Khashoggi’s final moments, a recording so visceral and vivid that even Trump could no longer offer the crown prince cover.

The compromise, in which five Saudi officials have been blamed and two sacked – Prince Mohammed’s domestic enforcer, Saud al-Qahtani, and deputy intelligence chief, Ahmed al-Assiri – is being hailed in Washington as credible, but derided elsewhere as a face-saving scam.

“There is simply no way that MBS [Prince Mohammed] was oblivious to this, either before the fact, or after it,” said a former Saudi official now living in exile. “Not even in my day could this happen. To suggest that a control freak and tyrant like this was blindsided by well-meaning aides is beyond laughable.”

The first test of the compromise, which was imposed on a reluctant Riyadh by Washington, is how to account for the fact that not only was Khashoggi killed but his body mutilated and disposed of in pieces somewhere in Istanbul.

Other questions stand out: if the intention was to abduct or interrogate Khashoggi, why was a forensic expert, who specialises in dismembering bodies, sent to do the job? How do Turkish accounts of Khashoggi being overpowered and killed within minutes of entering the consulate square with claims that he died fighting his assailants off?

Perhaps overriding them all though are themes set to haunt the international community’s relationship with Mohammed bin Salman from this point on; does he have the temperament, credibility or awareness to start to recover from such an atrocity? And can he ever be a plausible partner again?

Turkish investigators are now searching forests in Istanbul for what remains of Khashoggi and expect to soon close their case. The country’s leaders, meanwhile, continue to weigh their options. They are yet to release the most incriminating aspects of the case against Saudi Arabia – particularly the recordings.

To do so could have devastating consequences that might affect regional security. In Washington, Trump appears to sense that his interests and those of his patron may yet be safeguarded if events are pulled back from the brink.

“We’ll see about that,” said a senior regional diplomat. “It’s fair to say that the world order died here along with Khashoggi. I’m dreading what comes next.”

Timeline

2 October

Jamal Khashoggi is recorded on CCTV entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul at 1.14pm.

3 October

Saudi authorities confirm Khashoggi’s disappearance but insist he had left consulate. Turkish officials say he did not leave.

5 October

Saudi Arabia’s crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, reiterates that Khashoggi is not inside the consulate.

6 October

Turkish police say Khashoggi was murdered inside consulate.

7 October

Senior Turkish officials say that a 15-man Saudi hit squad was “most certainly involved”.

8 October

Donald Trump declares that he is concerned about Khashoggi’s disappearance.

9 October

US intelligence reported to have intercepted communications by Saudi officials planning to abduct Khashoggi.

10 October

Trump reveals he has spoken to the Saudis about what he calls a “bad situation”.

14 October

US president says there will be “severe” consequences if Saudi Arabia is found to be involved.

16 October

Trump changes view and criticises the widespread outrage directed at Saudi Arabia.

17 October

Reports claim that Khashoggi’s killers severed his fingers and later beheaded and dismembered his body.

18 October

White House shifts position again. Trump threatens “very severe” consequences if Saudis responsible.

Since you’ve been here …
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by KJo » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:20 pm

I agree with chetak. We should stay out of this.
If countries don't needle us, we should not needle them. For countries that do try to embarrass us, go hammer and tongs at them.

No one cares about principles in the real world. Why else would US be funding Pak for decades even though they are known to generate terrorism?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by dnivas » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:44 pm

wow, thanks for that detailed narrative on what happened. Insanity on what the Saudis did and props to the turks for spying non stop on the Saudi embassy

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:47 pm

On this CBI troubles, I noticed that those low lives Prashant Bushan and Arun Shourie are pushing their own narrative that ModiJi is pushing his agenda, some massive conspiracy etc. That itself makes me yawn and tells me its another one of those organized campaigns like those 4 judges holding press conference earlier.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by vishvak » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:56 pm

dnivas wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:44 pm
wow, thanks for that detailed narrative on what happened. Insanity on what the Saudis did and props to the turks for spying non stop on the Saudi embassy
The point is that world media, and many western government, is after an incident because it happened in an embassy.

On the other hand, there is media silence on murder of judge's wife and kid in broad daylight in a market by a fundamentalist. Or minimal noise on murder of key witness in bishop case who is let out on bail.

I think even after colonization we forgot that a man with a bandook isn't any less dangerous than a sword - and same would be true for such ideologies imported without much thought. The root cause of colonization - and invasions prior from jihadis - seem to be overlooked immediately. And we gotta prove it under never ending quest of perfect pseudo-secularism to very same bunch of world powers who invaded/colonized.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:20 pm

On RSS, as an ardent supporter, I am sorry to say that they are glorified eunuchs. I mean they are bending over backwards to make themselves acceptable to BIF, Lutyen traitors, their enemies etc, to persuade their detractors that they are not the evil they are, but their enemies do not relent. They compare them with ISIS, they compare them with Nazis, the caricature them, deride them, they demonize them both at home and abroad, you name it. And RSS has been unable to hit back. And they seem to be coy about saying front and center that they are a Hindu organization seeking the welfare and interests of Hindus. Instead, they keep beating around the bush about Hindu rashtra being a cultural notion and some other convoluted mumbo jumbo. If they have the b@lls, let them just say the obvious: We are an 80+% Hindu country, we seek to unite Hindus across castes, we work for the welfare of Hindus and protect Hindu interests etc. But also add that we accept Indian constitution which gives the right of other religions to practice their faith.

Unless and until BJP can get 45%+ of the vote, RSS should out of self interest and statesmanship take a back seat and do what they can at the ground level and quietly. The more Mohan Bhagwat opens his mouth, sometimes a tad pompously I might add, the more there is trouble for BJP IMO in terms of PR.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:20 pm

crams wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:47 pm
On this CBI troubles, I noticed that those low lives Prashant Bushan and Arun Shourie are pushing their own narrative that ModiJi is pushing his agenda, some massive conspiracy etc. That itself makes me yawn and tells me its another one of those organized campaigns like those 4 judges holding press conference earlier.
Why do you think NM is not (and should not) pushing his agenda. If he is not then he is not a politician worth his salt. I would rather have these CT be true and we have NM's agenda.
Why do you anyways lose your peace of mind about what these spent forces claim.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:22 pm

Absolutely!! These are not our battles to fight. We need more friends in this world.
KJo wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:20 pm
I agree with chetak. We should stay out of this.
If countries don't needle us, we should not needle them. For countries that do try to embarrass us, go hammer and tongs at them.

No one cares about principles in the real world. Why else would US be funding Pak for decades even though they are known to generate terrorism?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by shravanp » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:10 pm

crams wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:20 pm
On RSS, as an ardent supporter, I am sorry to say that they are glorified eunuchs. I mean they are bending over backwards to make themselves acceptable to BIF, Lutyen traitors, their enemies etc, to persuade their detractors that they are not the evil they are, but their enemies do not relent. They compare them with ISIS, they compare them with Nazis, the caricature them, deride them, they demonize them both at home and abroad, you name it. And RSS has been unable to hit back. And they seem to be coy about saying front and center that they are a Hindu organization seeking the welfare and interests of Hindus. Instead, they keep beating around the bush about Hindu rashtra being a cultural notion and some other convoluted mumbo jumbo. If they have the b@lls, let them just say the obvious: We are an 80+% Hindu country, we seek to unite Hindus across castes, we work for the welfare of Hindus and protect Hindu interests etc. But also add that we accept Indian constitution which gives the right of other religions to practice their faith.

Unless and until BJP can get 45%+ of the vote, RSS should out of self interest and statesmanship take a back seat and do what they can at the ground level and quietly. The more Mohan Bhagwat opens his mouth, sometimes a tad pompously I might add, the more there is trouble for BJP IMO in terms of PR.
Worse, the growth of RSS has been a the expense of VHP/BD. VHP/BD represent street power which is extremely necessary in country like India. Truth be told, Hindus have lost street power substantially, party due to economy benefitting them but mostly cuz they let RSS grow crazily. Nothing wrong with it, but we need VHP/BD. Sometime this year there were riots by peacefools in Aurangabad (Maharashtra). It was initially a one-sided rampage by peacefools. It was only when Shiv Sena countered them on streets when things came back to normal.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by syam » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:32 pm

I am done with convincing every one about the organisation. I already got banned on BRF. Really don't want to raise any uncomfortable issues.

Even for 100 people agitation, it required good organisation. This Sabarimala protest had 1000s of people. You can't pull of something that huge with out massive organisation effort.

I guess people from different backgrounds see things in different light. Take what you want from the protest.
Last edited by syam on Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by syam » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:46 pm

Sachin wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:51 pm
Actually in Kerala, there would be more RSS activists than BJP workers. I mean RSS is a very strong organisation in Kerala with a good fan base. But in the Sabari Mala incidents their own Nagpur HQ actually ditched them. For the first few days the RSS (whose central command is far away from Kerala) kept on taking a line that it stood for women's equality etc. Even the KL state's RSS chief made similar statements (when they being Keralites should have known better). Where as RSS could have spear-headed the movement, they remained mute spectators. There could have been RSS workers at Sabari Mala, but that was due to devotion to Ayyappa than because of their RSS loyalties. And less said about the BJP, the better.
Please provide sources where BJP or RSS welcomed the verdict. Only person who welcomed it is Maneka Gandhi. We all know how BJP/RSS she is.

Only time any RSS man made statement was back when 6 female lawyers went to court in 2006. That too, a neutral statement. You can't expect an 80+ guy to froath at mouth and kick the reporter who asked that question. He told the reporter that really large number of women were against the entry.

On the bolded part. People would give them credit, if their presence was felt by the devotees. Today the message going out is that Ayyappa devotees planned and strived hard to protect their belief system. And it was mainly social media which was used for communication (with some groups having lots of Sanghies as well). The Chief Minister now sees every Ayyappa devotee as a Sangh worker. That is his paranoia :lol:. And it is also his attempt to divide the Hindu society on caste lines, and find some group to lay the blame on. The CM is desperately trying to bring an upper caste v/s lower caste angle to this, and then grouping Sangh with the upper castes.
It's good that it's over. All peace. I really didn't expect this mockery from you though.

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