The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - Oct 2018)

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bharotshontan
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by bharotshontan » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:04 pm

Crams

My take is that the issue will resonate with the aam gay lesbian person, and in any given population it can be a good 4-5% naturally born. While poor class gays don't get affected by the British imposed law as much, many middle class etc gay men especially have been blackmailed and careers destroyed due to their bedroom business.

This is one issue where Lutyens deracinated West-liberal and us Hindutvadi leaning folks can see common interests. I don't think the gay issue is super irrelevant because like I said it isn't a miniscule percentage. There might be more lgbtq Indians than Sikhs.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by crams » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:22 pm

Sachin wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:41 am
^^ you beat me to it chetak; Supreme Court extends house arrest of rights activists till Sept. 12
I am little unsettled at the tone of the SC, rapping the Pune police on their knuckles. I am not peddling any CT here, but I can bet you that all western govts are monitoring this closely; these 5 punks and other break India forces are western assets, and to this end, I hope even a good SC judge Dipak MisraJi don't succumb to all the pressure tactics from the Urban Naxals, and deliver some toothless verdict declaring 'dissent is the core of democracy' and let these traitors out. The SC judges should consider India's supreme national security interests first and foremost and not impress the west with their platitudes about democracy and liberty in Oxford English.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:46 pm

crams wrote: I am not against gays, but on the scale of importance, is this issue that important an Indian context? It may be an obsession with western countries, but that does not mean it has to be a Gold standard for India as well.
I agree with you here. Was this section 377 IPC which was the biggest problem which was troubling India? The amount of cases piled up in various courts in India are really huge. And many of these cases are over much serious issues of life & death. There are poor under trial prisoners who are in remand, for more time than what an actual prison sentence for their offence/crime would give them. Is there any plan to ensure speedy justice for Indians, even if they are straight people?

What I am seeing is that there is a group of Indians, who perhaps because of the money, power and life style already have started assuming that they are whites/citizens of US and European country. They have reached a level, where it is only European or US social issues which is important for them. The Indian Parliament was right to kick out a private submission made by Shashi Tharoor to repeal Sec. 377 from IPC. The parliament really has more serious issues to deal with.
Ashish Raval wrote:It does because it is a)votebank b) rich votebank with high disposable income and no commitments and c) they are noisy bunch d) their population is increasing as nature fights back on uncontrolled procreation by sapiens.
The repealing was done by Hon.SC, and not any political party at the Parliament. Now how much of such people are a vote bank, I really cannot say. Because this subject is still kept as a private affair. Yes, there could be some gays who are rich and have no commitments, who can make noise as well (Bollywood??), but to assume that this is a big life changing event in India, I feel is not really true.
bharotshontan wrote:While poor class gays don't get affected by the British imposed law as much, many middle class etc gay men especially have been blackmailed and careers destroyed due to their bedroom business.
India, I feel is still a shame based society, where a person losing his face is a detterent to NOT do certain things. Compare this with the guilt based society in Europe etc, where it is a person's guilty conscience which stops him from doing certain things. The question then would be; can Indian society at large accept gays/lesbians as "normal human beings". The law is only giving people to indulge in such acts in their own private world. If a society abhors some thing, then people part of that society is still going to speak against it. So blackmailing or harassing etc. may still work, unless and until the Indian society finds it too trivial/insignificant. The only thing which is now stopped is any harrasment from the state's police agencies.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by ricky » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:18 pm

Laws should be iron and their enforcement more so, but what is the validity of laws made by a cabal of people NOT BEHOLDEN/ Accountable to the population at large? Did we vote in a government in 2014 to make laws so vaguely related to the masses at large to be almost laughable? Who appointed these judges, and by what authority do they seek to preach, nay advocate what must be so and so forth? This importance to highfalutin non-issues instead of to actual problems will give rise to armed militia, and the usual circlejerk related to the matter.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by bharotshontan » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:28 pm

There are poor under trial prisoners who are in remand, for more time than what an actual prison sentence for their offence/crime would give them. Is there any plan to ensure speedy justice for Indians, even if they are straight people?
Basically our judiciary is a coward and likes to take the lower hanging fruits than say a RJB case. Either way, low hanging or high hanging, if a fruit is getting plucked let's be glad.
India, I feel is still a shame based society, where a person losing his face is a detterent to NOT do certain things. Compare this with the guilt based society in Europe etc, where it is a person's guilty conscience which stops him from doing certain things. The question then would be; can Indian society at large accept gays/lesbians as "normal human beings". The law is only giving people to indulge in such acts in their own private world. If a society abhors some thing, then people part of that society is still going to speak against it. So blackmailing or harassing etc. may still work, unless and until the Indian society finds it too trivial/insignificant. The only thing which is now stopped is any harrasment from the state's police agencies.
Maybe not but "acceptance" etc are also not that important as much as being shielded from blackmail and harassment. I have a suspicion one of my gay uncle's money troubles stems from this despite being a very successful entrepreneur and restaurant owner. Either way, in above response you made the comment about a segment of Indians having graduated to US/white levels of ideas of citizenship etc. The Indian state does need to cater to these also and as such the concept of shame might be less shackling and they're really just happy to see the backs of needless additional hurdle of harassment. Once again, low hanging fruit...

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by crams » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:32 pm

bharotshontan wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:04 pm
Crams

My take is that the issue will resonate with the aam gay lesbian person, and in any given population it can be a good 4-5% naturally born. While poor class gays don't get affected by the British imposed law as much, many middle class etc gay men especially have been blackmailed and careers destroyed due to their bedroom business.

This is one issue where Lutyens deracinated West-liberal and us Hindutvadi leaning folks can see common interests. I don't think the gay issue is super irrelevant because like I said it isn't a miniscule percentage. There might be more lgbtq Indians than Sikhs.
All good points, even though I am not sure one way or the other about the # of gay people in a population. I can use my common sense and agree that there maybe some people who are gay by birth. Random selection works in myriad ways. Us Hindus believe that the attributes your current birth receives depends on the accumulated Karmas of many past lives. I need to wrap my head around this as well, and have had many discussions with SwamiJis like his holiness Swami MukundandaJi. So lets leave it at that.

Where I am mighty annoyed is the Lutyen mafia going berserk over this ruling. I mean elites like Karan Johar and their media mouthpieces like those bimbos on channels like UndY to be so euphoric over this ruling looks very artificial to me (I am sure it will impress all the western diplomats based in Delhi). I mean do you really think if Karan Johar type elites go on with their life, anybody will bother them? The point I am making is that this whole issue, as if its larger than life in India, is being orchestrated by a a bunch of wannabes who see themselves as colonial masters (see Sachin's excellent reply to me above).

Here is my worry from a BJP/ModiJi standpoint. This kind of over-hyping of gay lifestyle will provoke some nonsensical remark from a rustic BJP law maker, and mark my word, all hell will break lose. The intolerance brigade will pounce on it like a bunch of starved wild animals going after their prey. Thats why context, cultural environment, respect for social mores, history etc are all very important. Social issues much more relevant in Indian context must be front and center, and yes, even obsessed about. For e.g., I am yet to see a scholarly debate or discussion on Indian media on Hindus's respect for cows and how to deal with it in a plural society where for many, cows are to be killed and eaten. Only debate I see is self-righteous cacophony and indignation on the violence inflicted on Muslim cattle traders, making a causal connection with BJP/ModiJi, and with very little attention paid to the whole social context.
Last edited by crams on Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by achoudhury » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:34 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... tz-WFwoO9M ... An excellent lecture by Sanjeev Sanyal on economic philosophy of Modi Government. Please watch in full. It is worth it. He is a joy to listen to.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by bharotshontan » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:26 pm

crams wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:32 pm
bharotshontan wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:04 pm
Crams

My take is that the issue will resonate with the aam gay lesbian person, and in any given population it can be a good 4-5% naturally born. While poor class gays don't get affected by the British imposed law as much, many middle class etc gay men especially have been blackmailed and careers destroyed due to their bedroom business.

This is one issue where Lutyens deracinated West-liberal and us Hindutvadi leaning folks can see common interests. I don't think the gay issue is super irrelevant because like I said it isn't a miniscule percentage. There might be more lgbtq Indians than Sikhs.
All good points, even though I am not sure one way or the other about the # of gay people in a population. I can use my common sense and agree that there maybe some people who are gay by birth. Random selection works in myriad ways. Us Hindus believe that the attributes your current birth receives depends on the accumulated Karmas of many past lives. I need to wrap my head around this as well, and have had many discussions with SwamiJis like his holiness Swami MukundandaJi. So lets leave it at that.

Where I am mighty annoyed is the Lutyen mafia going berserk over this ruling. I mean elites like Karan Johar and their media mouthpieces like those bimbos on channels like UndY to be so euphoric over this ruling looks very artificial to me (I am sure it will impress all the western diplomats based in Delhi). I mean do you really think if Karan Johar type elites go on with their life, anybody will bother them? The point I am making is that this whole issue, as if its larger than life in India, is being orchestrated by a a bunch of wannabes who see themselves as colonial masters (see Sachin's excellent reply to me above).

Here is my worry from a BJP/ModiJi standpoint. This kind of over-hyping of gay lifestyle will provoke some nonsensical remark from a rustic BJP law maker, and mark my word, all hell will break lose. The intolerance brigade will pounce on it like a bunch of starved wild animals going after their prey. Thats why context, cultural environment, respect for social mores, history etc are all very important. Social issues much more relevant in Indian context must be front and center, and yes, even obsessed about. For e.g., I am yet to see a scholarly debate or discussion on Indian media on Hindus's respect for cows and how to deal with it in a plural society where for many, cows are to be killed and eaten. Only debate I see is self-righteous cacophony and indignation on the violence inflicted on Muslim cattle traders, making a causal connection with BJP/ModiJi, and with very little attention paid to the whole social context.
Good points likewise. The rustic remark has already come about from none other than SuSwamy himself, I'm certain the pouncing from Lutyens vultures is ongoing.

Regarding gohatya debate for a plural society, we need a Hindu Zakir Naik who can tackle these kinds of communally sensitive issues boldly and perfectly within the legal ambit on live TV. My sense is such characters or perhaps existing ones will start manifesting after 2019 if Modi makes it back in.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by hanumadu » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:43 pm

Some simple facts that BJP just does not mention in the Rafale case

1. The 300% escalation that congress keeps claiming is the price of the plane + weapons + maintenance where as congress' price was only that of the plane.

2. Qatar bought the same planes at a higher price than us. That alone should shut everybody up.

I don't know what the game plan is but the BJP seems to be happy to let congress dwell on the Rafale for as long as it wants.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by srikumar » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:35 am

Suprement Court of India has 53,000 pending cases per statistics from 2017.

The state High Courts combined have 48 lakh pending cases. (The number is 3 crores in subordinate courts).

https://www.businesstoday.in/current/ec ... 79664.html

The under-trails (who could not post bail) are in jail during the time cases are pending. This lasts for years and years and years. Yet the motto of the Supreme Court is: Yato Dharma Tato Jaya. (ironic, I suppose).

And a couple of years ago, the Supreme Court had time to look at the 'BCCI issue' and appoint Ramachandra Guha saab as some overseer.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by crams » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:30 am

hanumadu wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:43 pm

I don't know what the game plan is but the BJP seems to be happy to let congress dwell on the Rafale for as long as it wants.
Boss, do you think a consummate bufoon like Pappu needs to be countered if there is no need to? The game-plan of BJP is simple IMO. Even the bloody Congoon heavy hitting slaves of Pappu feeding sound bytes to him to regurgitate know they are blowing gobar gas. But the point is that in an extremely complicated deal like this, it is so easy to confuse issues and pass innuendos. Under the circumstances, anything BJP responds, there will be another counter set of accusations. Thus, let Pappu & Co squeal, and short of any genuinely damning revelation we have not heard of, this will dissipate in due course. Recall, a few few months Pappu moron said he is going to reveal an earth shaking misdeed of ModiJi, and all he did was make a complete ass of himself, I mean he is already an ass, he made it worse.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:18 am

twitter


Got in WA

Nail biting, thrilling competition.....
Who will hit century first...
*Diesel*
*Petrol* Or
*Rupee*

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:27 am

Early TRS candidate list hints at seat sharing with BJP
. Expect a lot of whines from the "secular" camp, and more conspiracy theories to come out.
KCR says Rahul Gandhi is 'biggest buffoon' in India. Now for an election campaign starter; that is one big statement :lol:.
ricky wrote:Who appointed these judges, and by what authority do they seek to preach, nay advocate what must be so and so forth? This importance to highfalutin non-issues instead of to actual problems will give rise to armed militia, and the usual circlejerk related to the matter.
It is now pretty much known to every one that Indian judiciary is now pretty much only accountable to itself. Through NJAC, current GoI (with support from opposition parties) did try to change the appointment process etc. But that was found unconstituitional by the judiciary.
crams wrote:This kind of over-hyping of gay lifestyle will provoke some nonsensical remark from a rustic BJP law maker, and mark my word, all hell will break lose.
That is expected. Infact RSS just said that they are okay with the verdict, but they would not endorse such relationships. The media may spin this, or else they can always find some Sadhu Maharaj would will make some rude statement, and that can be tagged to the Hindutwa folks.
Under the circumstances, anything BJP responds, there will be another counter set of accusations. Thus, let Pappu & Co squeal, and short of any genuinely damning revelation we have not heard of, this will dissipate in due course.
Some one has filed a case in Supreme Court asking the Govt. to come out clean on Rafale deal. The complainant has not listed what is NOT clean in the present deal. The court may very well ask what are the points the complainant is finding not according to the law. That itself would clear a lot of things; complainants do not know what they are complaining about. For the BJP best is to give out all the benefits of the deal, when it feels is a favourable opportunity for them. The INC and "seculars" are always trying to play the game according to their convenience, and BJP need to follow that schedule.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:40 am

twitter
“Party to probe”.
Note the similarity between Church & CPIM. Repulsive acts of sexual crime by their members are to be internally probed, not according to the Constitution they routinely invoke in their defence.

"It(rape)'s not a new thing. It has been there since the (Communist) party came to existence. Party leaders are human beings. Such mistakes are humane!" Kerala State Commission for Women Rights chairperson MC Josephine on #CPMRapeCase in which CPM MLA accused of raping CPM worker

Image

Sexual harassment charges filed against Kerala CPI (M) MLA PK Sasi, party to probe

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:33 am

chetak wrote:Sexual harassment charges filed against Kerala CPI (M) MLA PK Sasi, party to probe
All this tragi-comedy is when this very same party CPI(M) took out a protest march in New Delhi stating that BJP Govt. is not serious enough on women safety :roll: :rotfl:. If CPI(M) could have used all their paid cadres to march in Kerala's streets instead of those at New Delhi, it would have been much better.

Please note, there are two incidents in which CPI(M), DYFI "leaders" have been accused of sexual misconduct.
‘DYFI leader misbehaved with me’ . This revolutionary act was conducted by a DYFI "leader", in Thrissur dt. Again the woman first approached the party leadership who just ignored her. Now she has lodged a complaint with the police.
''I am Innocent'' says P K Sasi, ''Have 'communist courage' to face actions''. This is the case which got more news value because the courageous communist involved here was an MLA. And he has got enough and more backstabbers within his locality as well ;).
Complaint against Sasi was not kept a secret, asserts Brinda Karat. We can understand that, may be she was too busy conducting a protest march for "women's safety" in New Delhi, while her comrades were doing "revolutionary activities" in KL ;).

Mean while it took the "National Commission of Women (NCW") to issue a directive to the state DGP to begin investigations on the complaint against the "courageous communist" MLA. The latest update is that DGP is seeking "expert advice" on matters of arrests etc.

Now with all these, can the church be left behind?
No. More nuns raise allegations against Jalandhar bishop.

Here again Kerala Police have still not arrested the Bishop and interrogated him. A team had gone to Jalandhar, and there it was pretty much the Bishop interrogating the Kerala Police officials. The latest news is that the police have issued a notice to the Bishop to come down to Kerala in a week and meet the investigating officer.

Social media is clearly showing the mind set of an average Keralaite. It is now obvious that Kerala Police (with its current chief) is incapable of taking any strong police action against an organised party like CPI(M) or an organised religion like the Christian church. The joke is that K.P is now only retained to lodge Motor Vehicle petty cases and collect fines :lol:. The present DGP may be one of the most incapable officers sitting in that chair. His predecessor had much more spine, had far more legal acumen and was always willing to call "spade, a spade".

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Gus » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:54 pm

KCR dissolving assembly is big news

this sets up possibilities of putting more state assemblies along with general.

and that would complicate the "State wide MGB" plans of congress where it can make deals with incompatible state players.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:08 pm

Devaswom Board Directs Temples To ‘Donate’ For Kerala Flood Relief, ‘On What Authority’ Asks Kerala High Court
The flood relief was slowly becoming an extortion racket, and it is good that a controversial order has been stayed. Let the state's Devaswom Board (equivalent to Muzrai Dept. in other places) come up with an explanation on how donations can be forcefully taken.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by OmkarC » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:52 pm

Gus wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:54 pm
KCR dissolving assembly is big news

this sets up possibilities of putting more state assemblies along with general.

and that would complicate the "State wide MGB" plans of congress where it can make deals with incompatible state players.
Good point.. KCR was one of the first to want MGB, but w/o Congress. Congress is an existential threat to his family personally, just like it was to YSR family (perhaps even more so) as his community of Velamas constitute only 2% of Telangana population and Congress will most likely go with someone from their loyal Reddy community as a CM candidate.

There is no incentive for him to ally pre-poll with BJP either, that too in assembly elections, its more useful for him to ally with the Owaisi brothers. Still, it looks like its in BJP's interest that he comes to power in the state elections, as his chances of being a congress ally in 2019 are much lower than most political parties. For him to ally pre-poll in 2019 elections, he will have to calculate the damage of losing Muslim vote bank and ensure its less than the non-TRS votes drawn by Modi's charisma.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:29 am

CEC Rawat snubs Telangana CM KCR, says astrology can’t decide poll date

CEC Rawat snubs Telangana CM KCR, says astrology can’t decide poll date


The Chief Election Commissioner cited an SC ruling that repolling must be held on the first occasion to ensure the caretaker government doesn’t take advantage of remaining in power.


By Kumar Vikram

NEW DELHI: Reacting sharply to the manner in which Telangana Chief Minister K Chandrasekhar Rao announced the Assembly poll schedule in the state, Chief Election Commissioner O P Rawat said on Friday that it’s for the Election Commission to decide and declare poll dates.

Taking a jibe at Rao, he said astrology cannot be the basis of deciding election schedule.
He said a decision will be taken only after taking every aspect into account. He also cited an SC ruling that repolling must be held on the first occasion to ensure the caretaker government doesn’t take advantage of remaining in power.

“This is unfortunate, no political functionary, nobody other than the Election Commission should venture into declaring polling schedule of any House. It’s really wrong. I can’t say that election will be held now or later. It will be decided only after the review,” Rawat told reporters here on Friday.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:30 am

Miffed at IMD, Kerala government eyes global agencies for better forecast


Miffed at IMD, Kerala government eyes global agencies for better forecast

Bureaucrats said the state government’s key weather-related decisions including the opening of dam shutters, evacuation of people, etc are guided based on the forecast of IMD among other things

By Rajesh Abraham
06th September 2018

KOCHI: Amid the blame game over the delay in the opening of dam shutters in the state in the aftermath of the floods, a new line of thought is emerging within the Secretariat’s corridors: To use weather prediction inputs provided by international biggies like the IBM Weather Company for a more precise location-based forecast.

“Allow these big reputed private companies to supply data to the Indian Meteorological Department (IMD) and let them prescribe the standards,” said a senior bureaucrat. “If India can buy defence equipment from private players; if countries such as Japan and European countries can rely on the forecast by companies such as Mitsubishi, Earth Network, Samsung and IBM’s The Weather Company, what stops us from using such superior data?” wondered the officer.

When contacted, IMD director general K J Ramesh said it is providing 3 km x 3 km radius forecast, which gives predictions up to the taluk level.

IMD director general K J Ramesh said, “We’re providing this info on our website. If private players start giving info, then we can’t be held responsible if something goes wrong.” Bureaucrats said the state government’s key weather-related decisions including the opening of dam shutters, evacuation of people, etc are guided based on the forecast of IMD among other things.

Recently, IBM’s The Weather Company dashboard was installed at the CM’s office, which has been giving regular weather update feeds. “We observed the feeds from The Weather Company were even more precise,” said another officer.

Additional Chief Secretary P H Kurian said engaging private firms can bring a new perspective. He, however, refrained from commenting further. The government, right now, cannot act upon the information by private players as the IMD is the sole agency responsible for weather forecasting in India. It also provides meteorological observations and seismology.

Asked about the IMD’s claim of providing weather forecast up to 3 km x 3 km, the officer said its predictions were “erratic” and “not reliable” when compared with the predicted rainfall and the realised rainfall. “When we analysed the IMD data on 9-sq km radius, we found there’s a big gap between the realised rainfall and predicted rainfall,” said the officer.

Further, as per the BIS standards, a state like Kerala should have 258 rain gauges, as compared to the existing 69 stations. “We prefer automated stations, which will give us concurrent data. Right now, only five stations give us that. There’s no point in getting the data the next day,” the officer said.

For planning of emergency evacuation, the government needs three months’ advance forecast on the rainfalls in the catchment areas. “Private players can bring such credible information,” said the officer.
In fact, a Parliamentary Standing Committee that looked into Cyclone Ockhi had also suggested the IMD should collaborate with international firms. In its report tabled on April 4, it said: “The IMD must learn from best practices being followed globally to improve prediction of such a phenomenon. If needed, research should be undertaken to predict cyclones in collaboration with global organisations.”

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:21 am

Why are the commies and the urban naxals so quiet about this??

Shouldn't they have yelled bloody murder long before we even sat down for these talks??

2+2=more than sum of its parts

2+2=more than sum of its parts

Thursday, 06 September 2018 | Manish Chand

2+2=more than sum of its parts

At the 2+2 dialogue, India and the US will have to focus on twinning of Indian and American dreams by accelerating people-driven engagement and forging an enduring innovation-focused partnership in areas that affects the lives of people

Get your maths right. In the evolving arithmetic and calculus of India-US relations, two plus two could add up to more than just four. The ‘123 moment’, crystallised in the transformational civil nuclear deal, is now already more than a decade old. The defining partnership of the 21st century, as Barack Obama christened it famously, is now itching for a new “Trump-et” and seems poised to move into a higher ‘456’ orbit at the inaugural 2+2 dialogue between Foreign and Defence Ministers of the two countries in New Delhi today (September 6).

Great expectations: The messaging from both sides is distinctly upbeat on the eve of the 2+2 dialogue: Washington has already laid out an ambitious agenda to operationalise India’s status as the US’ major defence partner. Officials and US-friendly strategy gurus in New Delhi are trying to mint a new idiom of special relationship and point out that the US has 2+2 dialogue only with closest allies, like Japan and Australia. In their view, the decision to hold 2+2 dialogue is in itself a big takeaway as it reflects the growing strategic importance India and the US attach to each other.

What’s on the table? What it all adds up to is that there are huge expectations and high stakes as India’s External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj and Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman sit down for talks with their American counterparts, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Defence Secretary James Mattis in New Delhi this week.

Taking an informed long view, what can be realistically expected from the much-trumpeted 2+2 talks? First and foremost, the 2+2 dialogue will cement India’s status as the US’ leading strategic and security partner in the region. The US has already signalled rising importance of India by elevating it to Strategic Trade Authorisation-1 (STA-1) list, the third Asian country in this exclusive club, besides Japan and South Korea. The STA-1 status follows from the ‘123 deal’ and enables seamless sale and transfer of high-end defence trade and cutting-edge technologies to India by cutting through bureaucratic labyrinth.

Defence, the next big frontier: Second, a slew of concrete steps and initiatives will be unveiled to operationalise India’s status as the US’ major defence partner, which was granted during the Obama regime and was re-affirmed by the Trump Administration, marking a continuity in robust bipartisan strategic consensus in Washington to promote India’s rise as a major global power.

Defence-related deliverables could include a hotline between Indian and US Ministers for defence and foreign affairs, enhanced collaboration in defence innovations and posting of an Indian Navy liaison officer at the US Naval Forces Central Command (NAVCENT) in Bahrain. The 2+2 dialogue will also mark an upgrade of the US status as a pre-eminent source of weaponry for India, with the planned procurement of a host of high-end platforms estimated to be around five to eight billion dollars. These include, among others, the procurement of 24 MRHs (multi-role helicopters) and the US National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System-II (NASAMS-II), which will protect the National Capital from a nuclear strike.

To COMCASA or not: To fructify the promise of value-added defence partnership, the US is pushing India hard to sign the Communications, Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA), which will enhance inter-operability between the militaries and military systems of India and the US.

The draft text is ready for signing and awaits the Cabinet’s approval. The overarching concern in India is to ensure that the pact is not misused for spying on India, or in any way which will compromise the country’s sovereignty and vital security interests. The US side considers these apprehensions as misplaced and has tried to reassure their Indian interlocutors that foundational agreements like COMCASA are underpinned by trust. However, given that the elections are only a few months away, one is not sure whether the Narendra Modi Government will take the plunge, at least for now, as it could provide extra fodder to the Opposition parties and critics to sharpen their attack on the alleged erosion of India’s strategic autonomy. In such a situation, the signing of COMCASA looks unlikely at the 2+2 dialogue; at best, there could be in principle approval to the crucial pact.

Navigating the Indo-Pacific: Third, the 2+2 dialogue is expected to clarify and enhance the scope of India-US collaboration in the Indo-Pacific through various plurilateral and multilateral options, including the quadrilateral dialogue of democracies. The decision to rename the US Pacific Command as US Indo-Pacific Command, and a vigorous defence of the use of “Indo-Pacific” phrase instead of “Asia Pacific” by the powers that be in Washington underline that India is pivotal to shaping a free, open and inclusive Indo-Pacific.

In his defining address at the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore on June 1, Prime Minister Modi pitched robustly for an inclusive Indo-Pacific. Both India and US have officially denied China containment as the driving force behind their enhanced Indo-Pacific collaboration, but a sceptical Beijing will be closely scanning the 2+2 dialogue, with a touch of paranoia.

Elephants in the room: Going forward, the 2+2 dialogue will not be just about India and the US. In fact, there will be four elephants in the room at the 2+2 talks in New Delhi. The world will be metaphorically on the table, but one can expect special focus on the four countries — China, Russia, Iran and Pakistan —which have been problematic countries for the US, posing a different set of challenges for India.

On Pakistan, Trump, for all his famed unpredictability, has gone much beyond his predecessors to mount unprecedented pressure on Rawalpindi to curb cross-border terrorism. Just ahead of the 2+ 2 dialogue, the US suspended $300 million military aid for Pakistan. As Pompeo arrives in New Delhi after a trip to Islamabad, India will be closely listening in to what he says about Pakistan’s new Prime Minister Imran Khan and his views on relations with India and terrorism.

Creative diplomacy will be tested in finding a way around continuous issues involving the Third countries. There are barely a couple of months to go before the November 4 deadline for the US sanctions and zero imports of Iranian oil kicks in. Given Iran’s criticality to India’s energy security and the strategic significance of the relationship, India is hoping that the US will be more realistic and provide at least a limited waiver to India for importing Iranian oil. India is also expecting the US to ring-fence the Chabahar port from the sanctions on strategic grounds as the port transcends commerce and is critical to stability in Afghanistan.

Similarly, India will expect the US to make an exception for India to allow it to purchase Russian S-400 system to bolster its deterrence. In tricky and fraught situations like these, diplomacy has to live up to its calling as the art of the possible.

The road ahead: Probably, there will be no public announcements on these sensitive issues but one only hopes that the ‘456’ vision of the India-US partnership can inspire Washington and New Delhi to find a middle way around these challenging issues in the long-term interest of nurturing and elevating this mutually empowering partnership of the 21st century to the next level.

In the end, the 456 phase of India-US relations will be underpinned by a concord of liberal democratic values and a convergence between strategic interests of the US and India’s global aspirations. In mapping the way ahead, India and the US will have to focus on twinning of the Indian and American dreams by accelerating people-driven engagement and forging an enduring innovation-focused partnership in areas of education, science, technology, clean energy and public health that visibly impact the lives of ordinary people. It’s only by taking people along that two plus two will add up to more than four.

(The writer is Editor-in-Chief of India and World magazine, and a commentator on international affairs)

Lilo
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Lilo » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:33 am

^
Good question

Sunny
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sunny » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:32 am

Not sure this is a great slogan - the electorate do not like arrogance.
New Delhi: The BJP has decided to fight the parliamentary polls in 2019 under the leadership of party president Amit Shah. At a key meeting in the capital, the party has decided to defer its internal polls, to select a new leader, as Amit Shah's term as president ends in January 2019, sources have told NDTV
A slogan of "Ajey BJP" (Invincible BJP) was adopted at the meeting and Mr Shah told the leaders to work for the party's victory in the five states. A decision has been taken to give extra emphasis on the elections in Telangana, which is expected to go polls with Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh, said party sources.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/bjp-wil ... -topscroll

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Aditya_V » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:32 am

Coming from NDTV about BJP the slogan is definatly false, but they would definately need to work on the currency and fuel prices which have an impact on Electoral sentiment.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sridhar k » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:21 pm

Chetak sir

Let us see if the Congoons stop thier rafale nonsense. Then it indicates that they were being used by US for bullying NaMo Govt into signing this. The urban naxals anyway sing congitune

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