The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - Oct 2018)

[SSundar]

+ I guess the people questioning the "immoral" alliance of BJP with PDP can shut up now. Is INC-JDS alliance unholy or nawt ?

Saar, let me tutor you in Indian politics onlee. "No alliance made to save democracy from kommunal forces is unholy. No alliance made by kommunal forces is holy." Pleaj repeat after me.

[RajaRaja]

UN resolution was "adopted" in Jan 1949 but drafted earlier.

UNSC discussion started in Jan 1948, UNSC resolutions including the all important resolution #47 passed in Feb/March 1948, ceasefire happened in Jan 1949, thus the war continued for over 10 months after the UNSC resolutions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_ ... nuary_1948

[Aditya_V]

That is because Pakis were doing very well in the first half of 1948 and were about to capture all of Ladakh. It was after they were kicked out of Ladakh, lost Zoji la in Nov 1948. Pakis miltarily had no supply routes to Gligit Baltistan in the winter of 1948 and Indian Army had secured the Kashmir valley could open a front to recover Mirpur and routes to Minimarg, Kel to Muzaffarabad was opening. It was in this miltary situation ceasefire was imposed on 1 Jan 1949. There was no need for us agree to a ceasefire when finally the miltary situation was at our advantage.

[kvjayan]

Found in Twitter: Nice counter punch to self-declared historian Guha:

"Right sir. It is a pity that between the age of 3 and 14, Modiji did nothing to solve the Kashmir problem, despite knowing very well that he will be the PM one day."

[Vikas]

If Nehru was 'blue eyed boy' of British empire, would not it make more sense for Brits to let Nehru win fully in J&K and be darling of Indian masses forever rather than risk him being kicked out by some nationalist like Patel for failure in Kashmir.
Would have been way easier for Brits to keep a tab on Russia from J&K being part of Nehru's India.
OTOH, why not give whole of J&K to Djinnah for that's why Pakistan was created.

I don't think even Brits would have anticipated this festering wound for both Pakis and India to survive 70 years with no hope of cure.

[Sachin]

If Nehru was 'blue eyed boy' of British empire, would not it make more sense for Brits to let Nehru win fully in J&K and be darling of Indian masses forever rather than risk him being kicked out by some nationalist like Patel for failure in Kashmir.

We must also do a recheck on the average Indian citizen of the 1940s-1950 vintage. Poor financially and literacy wise, the average India would not have been even overtly bothered on what happened in Kashmir or else where. No TV, and radio was still a luxury. So Nehru's "victory" in J&K may not have been of much help. He even at that point of time had some pan-India respect, perhaps a little less than Ghandi.

It was only after Islamic terrorism started getting stronger in Kashmir (from mid-1990s) that many people actually started diving deep to the history of this problematic area. And it was perhaps after these studies people started realising that Nehru was not pragmatic on handling the J&K issue.

I don't think even Brits would have anticipated this festering wound for both Pakis and India to survive 70 years with no hope of cure.

This issue may have even died out if both countries just kept quite about the whole thing and retained what ever area they got. But Pakis became greedy started Islamic terrorism in Kashmir areas within India, and then the whole wound was reopened. To be honest, I as a kid drew the India Map with the entire Kashmir being part of India etc. (PoK, Aksai Chin etc. was not even mentioned in school syllabus). It was only when Kashmir saw its rounds of Jehad, that folks like me actually started realising the truth.

[Aditya_V]

If the aim is to keep India weak and uncompetitive, then you will understand a lot off things as to why there is soo much investment including effort in the leftist corrupt ecosystem in India and the International backing especially with BBC, AL Jazzera, CNN all taking thier narrative.

[RamaY]

If Nehru was 'blue eyed boy' of British empire, would not it make more sense for Brits to let Nehru win fully in J&K and be darling of Indian masses forever rather than risk him being kicked out by some nationalist like Patel for failure in Kashmir.
Would have been way easier for Brits to keep a tab on Russia from J&K being part of Nehru's India.
OTOH, why not give whole of J&K to Djinnah for that's why Pakistan was created.

I don't think even Brits would have anticipated this festering wound for both Pakis and India to survive 70 years with no hope of cure.

Nehru was "blue eyed boy" of British Empire, NOT BECAUSE he is some goody goody person. He was the blue eyed boy BECAUSE he was a willing candidate to implement British world view on "newly independent" India.

So, whatever Nehru did in JK is nothing but implementation of British interests/ideas when the JK principality didn't get solved as part of partition.

How silly on our part to say "Even Brits wouldnt have anticipated this festering wound for both Pakis and India". Is JK a festering wound for Pakistan? Is it not the very objective of Brits to create this festering wound on India?

[RamaY]

If Nehru was 'blue eyed boy' of British empire, would not it make more sense for Brits to let Nehru win fully in J&K and be darling of Indian masses forever rather than risk him being kicked out by some nationalist like Patel for failure in Kashmir.

We must also do a recheck on the average Indian citizen of the 1940s-1950 vintage. Poor financially and literacy wise, the average India would not have been even overtly bothered on what happened in Kashmir or else where. No TV, and radio was still a luxury. So Nehru's "victory" in J&K may not have been of much help. He even at that point of time had some pan-India respect, perhaps a little less than Ghandi.

It was only after Islamic terrorism started getting stronger in Kashmir (from mid-1990s) that many people actually started diving deep to the history of this problematic area. And it was perhaps after these studies people started realising that Nehru was not pragmatic on handling the J&K issue.

I don't think even Brits would have anticipated this festering wound for both Pakis and India to survive 70 years with no hope of cure.

This issue may have even died out if both countries just kept quite about the whole thing and retained what ever area they got. But Pakis became greedy started Islamic terrorism in Kashmir areas within India, and then the whole wound was reopened. To be honest, I as a kid drew the India Map with the entire Kashmir being part of India etc. (PoK, Aksai Chin etc. was not even mentioned in school syllabus). It was only when Kashmir saw its rounds of Jehad, that folks like me actually started realising the truth.

I disagree.

In 1947-48 (or even 100/200/300/500/800 years before that), Bharatiyas we well aware of what their nation stands for and what its interests are even though they were "poor and illiterate" as per a given definition. That is why they fought against invaders, colonizers in the whole length and width of Bharat.

So it is INCORRECT to say "Bharatiyas" (I find it incorrect to call ourselves Indians because it limits our scope to post-1947) didn't or wouldn't care about JK; and especially blaming it on poverty and (sic) illiteracy as if that's an important factor in determining the identity of a nation/civilization and its territorial integrity. If this rationale is correct, we should see citizens of dirt-poor nations dismantling their nations and call themselves USA/UK.

I agree with you that the it is fault of post-independent govts (naturally blame goes to Congress and Leftists) for not including these territories in our text books so our children learn. In the same breath I question many of self-declared (sic) Indian Patriots who define Bharat as India and leave Afghanistan to Vietnam in their definition of Bharat, claiming only India is reality. Then we cant blame Nehru for removing PoK/Aksaichin from our text books. We cant be half-dhimmi about this.

[Supratik]

Passing resolutions in the UN means nothing if warring parties don't accept it. Ceasefire was agreed in Jan 1949. However, the point is why did Nehru take it to the UN at all not when.

[sanjayC]

Article 370: The untold story

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... old-story/

[Supratik]

It seems a lot of old fools and skunks of the C-system have migrated more towards the left and are now writing for various leftist publications.

[Primus]

Passing resolutions in the UN means nothing if warring parties don't accept it. Ceasefire was agreed in Jan 1949. However, the point is why did Nehru take it to the UN at all not when.

I was typing a long response and it all crashed

From MO Mathai's "My Days With Nehru"

"But for Sheikh Abdullah and the unqualified support for him by Nehru, the Maharaja would have acceded to India along with other rulers"

Elsewhere I have read that Nehru’s condition for accepting the accession was that Hari Singh release Sheikh Abdullah from prison which he refused to do hence the accession was never accepted by India. Not sure how far that is true, will keep looking.

"In formally accepting the Maharaja's accession to India, Governor General Lord Mountbatten extracted from Nehru and the Emergency Committee of the Cabinet permission to add that the will of the people would be ascertained as soon as the law and order situation was restored.”


“On 3 November 1946 Nehru gave formal shape to Lord Mountbatten’s idea in a radio broadcast unilaterally offering a plebiscite in Kashmir under the UN auspices. This and going to the UN with a complaint of aggression against Pakistan at the end of 1947 were unmitigated blunders……..India has been foolish enough to make concession after concession. This country is still eating the bitter fruits grown out of the seed originally sown by Mountbatten.”

It is believed that Nehru always ‘leaned’ on strong personalities and was very much influenced by them, eg. Gandhi and then Mountbatten. I don’t know how much of a role Edwina played in this

Further on, MO Mathai writes on pg 242, and this part is disturbing although it happened much later:

"Soon after his release in 1964 Sheikh Abdullah was at his old pet game again – the ultimate creation of an Independent Kashmir. He persuaded Nehru , by then an ill man, to let him go to Islamabad for talks with President Ayub Khan.

In this context, two pieces of disquieting news reached me:

1. A Brigadier of Army Headquarters said that the army felt very strongly about recent poliical events in Kashmir and added that there would be trouble if any weakening was shown by the Prime Minister in regard to kashmir’s accession to India because the army did not want to have the shameful feeling that it’s soldiers had shed their blood in vain. The Prime Minister let down the army once by ordering a cease-fire when our army was poised for clearing the raiders and Pakistanis from the entire Jammu and Kashmir area. It was the Prime Minster who created Azad Kashmir and not Pakistan. The army had enough humiliations after Independence; and it was not going to stomach the pusillanimity of politicians any more.
2. A Major in the army said openly at the Delhi Railway Station that if the Prime Minister did any monkey tricks in regard to Kashmir, he would have to go the same way as Gandhi."


Mathai then goes on to say that he brought this to Nehru’s attention who was ‘not in a mental state to take in even elementary things and that it would be dangerous for India to let him take any initiative in any important matter’.

Nehru died soon thereafter.

[hanumadu]

It seems a lot of old fools and skunks of the C-system have migrated more towards the left and are now writing for various leftist publications.

True. Jairam Ramesh who used to advocate liberalization during NDA1 has become a environment Nazi when in govt. Kapil Sibal takes on all kinds of islamist causes to argue. Congress spokes person, the whole congi media is more west that the west in advocating liberal causes. All this happened during the UPA 10 years and we did not even notice it.

The hand behind the congress decided to turn the left meter on. The goal for India was always to make it a left hell hole leading to a islamic hell hole. Having an illiterate barmaid and her idiot son at the helm of congress only make their task easier. There was no one in the congress who could go against Sonia and the hand controlling her.

[Gus]

DK shivakumar in IT trouble. Hawala channel involved in payment to AICC.

[chetak]

For anyone who thinks that there is no agenda of "Indian" feminazis


twitter

Look How Communalism Works,As A Female They Appeal You To Break All Rules And Regulations When You Are In Temple Or India
But Their Feminism Vanishes As Soon As They Step In Islamic Country And They Quietly Follow Rules Laid By Religious Place.
Your Views?

[Vikas]

I don't think even Brits would have anticipated this festering wound for both Pakis and India to survive 70 years with no hope of cure.

How silly on our part to say "Even Brits wouldnt have anticipated this festering wound for both Pakis and India". Is JK a festering wound for Pakistan? Is it not the very objective of Brits to create this festering wound on India?

RamaY Ji, Think of this issue from Paki perspective and it will become clear.
Something that every Paki thought belonged to them has been snatched away by evil kaffir Bharat and is kicking Islamic butt in Kashmir.

For Kashmir, They invaded in 1948 and lost face.
They again tried in 1965 and lost men, honor and self appointed field Marshall Ayub Khan.

Created terrorists in 1990's to recapture Kashmir but the same terrorists are now devouring Pakis.
Tried Kargil misadventur and Kasmir "freedom" movement became synonyms with Terrorists.

Agreed Bharat has lost more in this cancerous growth but Pakis too have suffered.
Thinking aloud, If Pakis would have overrun and captured whole of Kashmir, how the geo political events and political events in India would have played out ?
Did Brits anticipate the dynamic events around J&K which would have resulted in J&K being a divided territory.

[chetak]

can anyone fathom this visceral hatred for brahmins in tamil nadu??

Note the spelling of Hindu. This schitt is from the toilet news paper

;

[Aditya_V]

The problem is also with a person who invited him. these are people who are breeding snakes.

[chetak]

I don't think even Brits would have anticipated this festering wound for both Pakis and India to survive 70 years with no hope of cure.

How silly on our part to say "Even Brits wouldnt have anticipated this festering wound for both Pakis and India". Is JK a festering wound for Pakistan? Is it not the very objective of Brits to create this festering wound on India?

RamaY Ji, Think of this issue from Paki perspective and it will become clear.
Something that every Paki thought belonged to them has been snatched away by evil kaffir Bharat and is kicking Islamic butt in Kashmir.

For Kashmir, They invaded in 1948 and lost face.
They again tried in 1965 and lost men, honor and self appointed field Marshall Ayub Khan.

Created terrorists in 1990's to recapture Kashmir but the same terrorists are now devouring Pakis.
Tried Kargil misadventur and Kasmir "freedom" movement became synonyms with Terrorists.

Agreed Bharat has lost more in this cancerous growth but Pakis too have suffered.
Thinking aloud, If Pakis would have overrun and captured whole of Kashmir, how the geo political events and political events in India would have played out ?
Did Brits anticipate the dynamic events around J&K which would have resulted in J&K being a divided territory.

The brits divided India after similar divisions by them in other parts of the world. They knew in specific terms how the muslims would react.

They knew very clearly, even then where their interests lay and how to protect them.

They, however, seem to have slipped up on iran and the unexpected downward spiral after the shah was deposed.

Since those cataclysmic events, their middle east policies (US + UK) have taken a fatal hit. Other big players have also stepped in and started to assert themselves.

The events in cashmere did not merely play out in a meandering, slow motion and fait accompli sort of way but were diredted by specific actors like mountbatten and others. Their actions were undoubetedly orchestrated by puppet masters in the then colonial office of the HMG who played idiots in India theough people like edwina and her husband.

But it must be acknowledged that pakis have exceeded even the wildest of the britshit dreams.

[Sachin]

NSG may be deployed in J&K for anti-terror ops
Hope this is part of a well thought out move. Any operation in which NSG not able to perform well, or takes too casualties the "secular" gang and their media would once again use that to hit at the GoI. They would be even willing to ridicule the NSG if that can help the Jehadis score more brownie points.

More on the "secular" government woes in Karnataka
1. I-T complaint says DKS involved in hawala deals; with the latest finding being that DK Shivakumar also transferred a few crores to Congress party High Command via the hawala route. IT folks have identified a few KA govt. officials posted in Delhi as the conduits.
2. Shivakumar to seek anticipatory bail; as the IT department is making life all the more irritating for him.
3. HDK tells GTD to take charge as Higher Edu minister; thus making an 8th Std. pass-out decide on the quality of education in KA.
4. Cabinet expansion unlikely before budget session; and the plan is to put all the rebellious MLAs into the "emergency quota" cabinet posts and some corporation/board chairmanships.

Looks like it is not a very good day for the "communals" .
1. J-K IS militants, jawan killed in Anantnag encounter. Is it the first time that "Islamic State" terrorists operating in Kashmir?
2. BJP a 'militant organisation': Mamata
. Wow!!! This lady is just improving her performance day by day.
3. History will not forgive BJP for Kashmir: Sena; and all the while the losers still do not pull out of the central government.
4. Yoga not about religion, resist propaganda: Pinarayi. Yeah, Yoga was some thing which Com. Karl Marx and Com. EMS Namboodirippad devised sitting in Travancore after the latter had ran away in fright from his home town during the 1921 Moplah riots. Yoga is a very "secular" exercise, which is generally practised by shouting "Inquilab Zindabad" and "Down with capitalism" 101 times

[Supratik]

The Brits reacted to their opponents in the sub-continent differently at different times. They used Purbias and remaining Muslim states to defeat the Marathas and Sikhs and then used the Sikhs to defeat the 1857 rebellion which was largely centred around the Gangetic plains and contiguous areas. After the 1857 rebellion the Muslims were out of favour and Hindus/Sikhs were accommodated. A lot of Hindus/Sikhs became zamindars during this period and they were also favoured in administration. In Bengal after Muslim rule was ended by the British Hindus became dominant and zamindars. However, soon Hindus/Sikhs started to rebel particularly Bengalis and Punjabis. This turned the British against them. By the turn of the of the 18-19th century the British conducted censuses and came to know that the Muslim population was substantial and geographically dominant in certain regions. As a warning to the Bengali Hindus they divided Bengal into Hindu-Muslim parts in 1905 but were forced to rescind after massive protests. As the freedom movement which was led by Hindus/Sikhs gathered pace they started inculcating the Muslims who largely stayed away from the movement. Muslim League was encouraged. By the 40s they knew they had to leave the subcontinent and if they handed over power the Hindus would have a vast country to rule. The Muslim leadership knew that they will be under permanent Hindu rule. The relationship between the British and Muslim elite solidified in their opposition to Hindus/Sikhs. The British found out that a Hindu-led India could be cut down to size by creating Pakistan and the pesky Punjabi Hindu/Sikhs and Bengali Hindus can be reduced in strength by dividing their homelands. Rest is history. The British deliberately kept open the option for various indigenous rulers to stay independent as they wanted the subcontinent to remain disunited. If not for Patel and the IA whatever we control in India and J&K would have been lost.

[Supratik]

I am writing about people like PK Jha, Vinod Dua, etc who were earlier pro-Congressi. They are now writing vitriolic articles for all those foreign-funded leftist media that has cropped up lately. It seems the C-system is very angry with those pesky Hindus for electing the BJP and Modi. They would like to burn down the whole house in retaliation.

[Supratik]

Sushma Swaraj has done a huge goof-up. She has transferred an honest passport officer for doing his duty. The officer refused to give passport to a woman who a Hindu had converted to Islam for marriage and her different documents had different names some Hindu others Muslim. Under SS pressure the woman has been issued a passport. This is Congressi style governance. She should be at least rebuked if not asked to resign. She thinks she is still working under Vajpayee-Advani.

[Indrad]

Sushma Swaraj needs to be given boot to go into margdarshak mandal.
She is always appeasing ummas and mullahs, her entire time line is full of assuring help to pakis looking for visa for medical purposes and now she has done this.
Entire RW twitter brigade is baying for her blood.
Otoh women Tanvi Seth who has a different name on nikah nama *Saeed Anees) actually had visa for US rejected last year hence wanted to make a different application. She played umma card plus woman card, shouted at officer and was unwilling to give explanation why she wants pp in first name but has a converted name now.