Health and Fitness

General nukkad-style discussions.
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Singha
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Singha » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:05 am

Uphill or downhill running exposes runners knee issue like no other

Raja
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Raja » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:26 am

The knee issues are almost always not an issue with the knee but an imbalance in muscular strength above or below the knee. Different causes for uphill and downhill running manifesting knee issues. In former case it’s weak glutes and hamstrings, calves and in latter case weak quads. Any moderately technical trail will expose such shortcomings even if not too hilly.

jamwal
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by jamwal » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:17 am

Running uphill or downhill is best left to ultra fit people, specially at high altitudes above 3000 meters. Running downhill is indeed a good rush, but reasonably safe only in certain locations.

Primus
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Primus » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:35 am

This might change Cardiology as we know it. Groundbreaking study coming out of the Lancet this week.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lance ... sca1=tlxpr

Randomized placebo controlled study, major implications for interventionalists, hospitals and the companies that have made billions.

Basically 200 patients were randomized into stent vs sham cath for stable angina. Results indicate stents make no difference and patients feel just as improved with standard medical therapy. If you read the media reports on this, including the opinion of leading cardiologists in the editorial on the paper, it indicates the end of an era.

I have always suspected this but now the study provides factual evidence that a lot of what we do in medicine is ineffective. Public perception and demand, driven by relentless promotion by vested interests, coupled with greed on the part of the healthcare community has bankrupted many a society, not to mention the poor patient who can ill afford such costly procedures.

What an eye-opener!

Singha
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Singha » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:53 am

india had put stents on a price control list last year, much to howls of protest from MNCs.

Singha
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Singha » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:31 pm

malnad ultra


a scary looking place kalavanthin durg somewhere near mumbai

Singha
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Singha » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:33 pm

kalavanthin looks like a place that king cobras and other le serpents would love to hang out in.

within limited sea room in the ravines and steps, its game over if one encounters such a species.

Singha
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Singha » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:39 pm


Singha
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Singha » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:44 pm


Singha
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Singha » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:50 pm

seems to be 100s of shivaji era forts in MH on the edges of the ghats


no wonder aurangzeb spent 27 years chasing shadows in the deccan

Raja
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Raja » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:28 pm

Ran a hilly FM as part of sasur ji’s LA trip before he returns to India. Finished in 4:08. First 13.1 miles of 7000 ft downhill and then 2200 ft of climbing in the next 13.1. The nasty buggers changed the course to have an uphill last mile and never updated the elevation chart. :evil: :evil: Took advantage of the initial downhill to bank some time despite having some breathing issues from residual allergies from the ash drifting from Napa valley fires and the very dry air at the higher altitudes of the race. Once below 3000ft the air warmed up and breathing became OK. Chankianly walked some of the steep uphills and also took a pee break at half way before the big slog. The hill repeats ensured the pounding of the downhills did not trash the legs for the 2nd half and after finish I was surprisingly fully mobile.

Nutrition this time was on the dot so energy levels remained fairly good despite warmer weather towards the end and I think I have finally figured out the marathon nutrition math so managed to trot comfortably without pushing too much in the 2nd half except that last dastardly uphill where I decided to run it after everybody in our group started walking. A rough goal was to go steady fast effort in the first half and try for a sub-2:20 in the second half. First half effort came in at 1:49 and 2nd half effort came in 2:18 so it was satisfactory onlee with no unplanned heroics. Also took some 30 second breaks every 4 miles in the 1st half based on advice from a SDRE Western States 100 finisher and that probably also helped to not totally trash the quads.

Raja
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Raja » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:37 pm

What makes Mira Rai run

Mira Rai is an ex-Maoist rebel turned top ultrarunner from Nepal. Hard rural background where punishing physical exercise was just a means to daily living. Just like the Kenyan elites like Kipchoge. Running hard, long and fast to them is second nature and then they train very hard on top of it. Any couch borne weekend warrior type ITvity munna will look like a flabby tabby compared to these cats. :oops: :oops:

Singha
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Singha » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:30 pm


Raja
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Raja » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:30 am

Findings from experiments on training and race nutrition, for make benefit distance runners

This is mainly for runners running a 5K and beyond and based on last one year's hit & trial experiments.

1) Train at race pace. You need to train at race pace whether you are running a 5K or a 50K. Training programs will always talk about tracks, tempos (aka speed workouts which are faster than race pace) and long runs (slower than race pace) but rarely talk about race pace runs. You need to get in 1-3 runs at race pace for up to ~75% of the race distance (start lower, for example ~40% of race distance). This will help you gauge: (a) Is your target race pace realistic?; (b) what is feels like in terms of effort to run race pace for that distance - this is very important as otherwise people grossly over or underestimate the actual pace they are running based on perceived effort/exertion, especially if they are used to depending on a GPS watch to guide their real-time pace.

2) Brahmastra #1: The 0.25 mile hill repeat. #2 & #3 combined is the secret weapon to get strong and fast at all distances without needing to run fast on a track and getting shin splints and stress injuries. Running fast doesn't necessarily make you strong; getting strong will necessarily make you fast. But usual weightlifting exercises like squats and deadlifts don't help distance runners that much but greatly increase the risk of injury. Hill repeats are a safer and more effective way to get stronger, that too with greater RoI and lower risk. Running hill repeats is applicable to runners running any kind of race or distance whether flat or hilly, 5K or 50K. Find a hill with at least 6% grade but no more than 10% grade and at least 0.25 miles in length. Warm up by a few laps of walking up the hill and jogging down. Run hill repeats once a week (no more) and rest the next day. Start with 2 repeats and work up to 6 over the weeks. For each repeat, run up the hill in a slow controlled fashion focusing on landing on the forefoot and pushing up with your foot, achilles and calves. Your foot should not be flat on the ground. Pace yourself so that you don't have to walk at any point while going up hill. This will take some time to figure out for people who are new to running up hill. Once you go up 0.25 miles up the hill, immediately turn around and jog down (don't run fast). Take a 2-3 minute break between each repeat and continue.

Note: If it feels comfortable going up hill at your chosen pace, don't speed up in your first 2 repeats but hold the pace. If it still feels good in the 3rd repeat or beyond then speed up a little bit as there is a thin line between comfortable pace and red line pace when going up a steep-ish hill.

3) Brahmastra #2: The 5 minute leg training circuit. This is a highly effective workout which should be done twice a week, for 5 minutes each. It is way more effective than 60 minutes of leg presses, squats and deadlifts in a gym. Unlike what the name suggests, this is not just for trail/mountain runners and immensely benefits road runners from short to ultra distances. But it needs to be done for at least a month in order to see big gains; 2 x week (so 10 mins total per week of time commitment is required) and all the exercises need to be done in sequence (no mix and match or applying modifications to the routine).

The 5-Minute Leg Circuit for Mountain-Running Strength

4) Race nutrition for 20+ mile races (marathons and beyond). It is based on the following simple fundamentals:
a) Regardless of how many calories you lose per hour during a race, you will only be able to take in 200-300 calories per hour, period. This is why when you run a race, you need to run it at the pace you practiced (See #1 above) and not at paces faster than what you trained for, otherwise it is a recipe for cramping and boinking ('hitting the wall'). If you run faster than what you trained for, your body will expend calories at a much faster rate and the calorie deficit will become much wider.

b) As the race progresses, your stomach will slowly start shutting down and become less efficient in digesting calories. And more the race progresses, greater is the need that blood gets directed to your legs rather than your stomach. Which means you need to front load your calories while taking care of 4(a) above otherwise you will cramp, boink or bloat and crash. So there needs to be a nutrition intake plan in your head or written down before you reach the start line and you need to focus and stick to it. Typically for marathon distance, that means all your nutrition needs to go into your body by mile #20 and after that nothing goes in except electrolytes, salt tabs (if required) and water. Ensuring that will ensure that you don't hit the wall at mile #21 or #22 and feel comfortable & mentally relaxed running the final 5K of a marathon. A good rule of thumb is to pre-load your body with 100-150 calories 1.5-2 hours before the race start. Then take in ~100 calories in total at the 1st hour (gel, chomp, electrolyte drink whatever all combined) and then ~100 calories every 45 minutes after that (don't delay by 5-10 minutes especially as the race progresses and you get tired) with the last dose of nutrition going in before you hit mile #20. A good way to internalize this plan is to try it out in your long runs beyond 15 miles (personally I don't follow this but perhaps I should - normally my longest run for a FM is 18 miles with no nutrition).

Now one can go without nutrition and run much slower than their regular pace and complete the race in fat burning zone but: (i) it will be a slow painful slog; (ii) your finish time may not be good (if you care about it); (iii) post-race recovery will be much more uncomfortable. In a nutshell, it is not fun. So unless it is an ultra marathon, running in fat burning zone is only recommended for prosumer elites and above.

5) Race nutrition for races < 20 miles (half marathons and below). Truth of the matter is you don't really need nutrition for these distances except electrolyte replenishment and water. Take in 100-150 calories 1.5-2 hours before the race start. If you do that, then using gels or other foodstuffs at distances <= 13.1 miles only causes blood to be diverted from your legs to your stomach and doesn't do much in terms of energy levels as your glycogen stores are good for up to 2-2.5 hours as long as you run at the pace you trained for and didn't blast out at an unreasonably fast pace. So for HM finishers in the 2:30 and below range, no nutrition is required. For those HM runners finishing in 2:30+ time range, at most 100-150 calories of nutrition in total is required (remember this includes high calories electrolyte drinks like Gatorade). But even at those time ranges, its more important to ensure that electrolytes are topped up vs nutrition.

:ugeek: :ugeek: That's all I found. :ugeek: :ugeek:

Marten
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Marten » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:51 am

Singha wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:50 pm
seems to be 100s of shivaji era forts in MH on the edges of the ghats


no wonder aurangzeb spent 27 years chasing shadows in the deccan
Can't be easy working your way around these places. Mawalas must have been amazingly strong in terms of leg +core strength and stamina.
Know someone who claimed to have done 350+ forts in two years. Just quit his job, walked around with a couple of tees, shorts, and his camera kit. Formidable force of nature, he turned into. Last heard, runs a small resort near Satara from where he can launch into the wild at will.

Singha
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Singha » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:14 pm

i rediscovered this old video from long back when I just started out watch with sound. some pretty bada$$ characters in brazil here.
they do very well in hot and humid conditions.


Singha
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Singha » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:22 pm

there are glimpses of what i believe to be the legendary KONA ironman in hawaii above.
after a few miles of sea swimming and a 180km bike ride, there is a 42k run through hot sun, volcanic areas with no shade.

the legendary guy who got Rb out of the gym and onto the road - the SWM - saucony wild man

Raja
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Raja » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:52 pm

No TFTA SWM got me out of the gym onto the roads, it was SDRE Jernail Singha, BRF’s 1st marathoner who did. :mrgreen:

Speaking of roads, I noticed that in the last 2-3 months only 19 miles in total was on roads, rest was all on trails onlee.

Singha
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Singha » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:22 am

this week i did one instance of the 5min stairsy workout and 2 x 800m hill workout at 6' incline of treadmill and some plank.

I realize its fairly modest but one has to start somewhere.

Raja
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Raja » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:32 pm

Any soreness the next day after the 5 min circuit?

Singha
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Singha » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:35 am

No i think not

Raja
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Raja » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:21 pm

That's pretty good. Just do that 2 x week and make sure you always do the full routine in sequence with breaks short enough to ensure recovery but not total rest.

KJo
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by KJo » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:23 pm

Singha, do you work out in a gym, or all outdoors?

Singha
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Singha » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:10 pm

i am trying to keep a ratio of 50:50 between treadmill and road/trail. not being a highly seasoned athlete I find it reduces chances of overuse injury.

Raja
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Re: Health and Fitness

Post by Raja » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:46 am

Singha saar, you keep low mileage like me so overuse injuries should not be a concern. And regularly doing that 5 min leg strengthening circuit will prevent overuse even if you upped your mileage a bit.

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