Nukkad

[Singha]

is that Malaysian or Filipino head of state ?

[V J]

That's Rodrigo Duterte, President of Philippines

[Marten]

Am sure he had something to say to NaMo in private. The chap is in power thanks to his delirious rants. I suspect he is mostly a Chinese pawn and says what he does to please both his Chini masters or his voting public.

[Mort Walker]

One of the problems I have experienced is that many Indians get very touchy and sensitive when one raises issues in how Indian processes work. For example, 18 months ago, I had trouble renewing the PIO card for my son and the process was equivalent of getting a new card. Many members here justified it, and said that Indian Govt is under no obligation to fix processes for non citizens and began to point to some awful agencies in the US like IRS and Immigration. Is that our excuse? That someone else sucks worse?

I was one of them and still stand by what I had said then. As far as GoI is concerned, PIOs are not its citizens, so it does not have any legal obligations to them. Yes, they were former citizens, so it grants them the privilege of the OCI/PIO card. But that's all it is - a privilege. It is not a right. Hope you get the difference.

As an Indian citizen, I'd rather my govt focus on improving processes impacting my fellow citizens and myself. Selfish? Sure. But I didn't abandon my passport for my own needs, so I will expect something of my govt. It's funny that those who gave up their passport expect similar attention from a govt that's under no obligation to them, hence all this for this card, that card, etc.

Now, let's say that having taken up massa* citizenship, these PIOs do something for the others who want to follow their footsteps, or at least those who visit them, like parents (who are still overwhelmingly Indian citizens) and tourists. How about trying to increase the value of the Indian passport that got PIOs to where they are in the 1st place? Or how about lobbying the govt to make it easier for parents to visit, instead of standing on the street for hours to give a fingerprint, then in another line for a vijja appt? I don't hear any howls of protest on such practices by the 'arrived' folks in massa, do you? It's mostly beneath most MUTU** folks to talk about these things. Change and make these processes more dignified for its citizens, maybe then GoI will listen to your complaints. Maybe.

Now, coming to your point about defending Indian issues - I won't if massa is perfect. It is anything but, except in its own propaganda. I am under no obligation to accept that propaganda without question. And in this instance, you made an absolute claim that "healthcare is a big scam in India". Funnily, I didn't get jacked with $5000+ bills for treatment I didn't need in India, so forgive me if I contest your claim.

*massa is a placeholder, can be any country
** Not saying you are one - but I am sure you know a few such ppl

I think you’re mistaken. Indian consulates in the US have as its functions to provide passports to Indians, OCI to PIOs, and visas of different categories. By not doing these jobs well does not mean they are providing better services to you as an Indian citizen inside or outside of India. To the contrary, if they can’t provide KJo proper services for an OCI, then tell me how do you expect the consulate to provide passport services to an Indian citizen in the US? This is not a case of one over another.

[KJo]

Singha, how are things at Netz? I was Whatsapping a high school classmate of mine whose husband is at Netz in desh and she says its a lot of politics and people are looking to leave.

[Vyoman]

Netz went up by few bucks on strong performance. They are heading in the right direction as a biz

[Singha]

Mt Agung eruption in Bali, though minor one, looks like a medium sized nuclear device landed on it
has as scary look to it.


I can only shudder what the krakatoa explosion must have been like - cosmic in scale - the third eye - twilight of the gods ... the awakening of Azathoth..sleeps eternally, lulled by the music of a lesser deity who must drum for ever, "for if he cease for an instant then He will start awake, and there will be worlds nor gods no more

The largest explosion, at 10:02 am, was so violent that it was heard 3,110 km (1,930 mi) away in Perth, Western Australia, and the Indian Ocean island of Rodrigues near Mauritius, 4,800 km (3,000 mi) away , where they were thought to be cannon fire from a nearby ship. The third explosion has been reported as the loudest sound heard in historic times.[2][3]:79 The loudness of the blast heard 160 km (100 mi) from the volcano has been calculated to have been 180 dB.

The pressure wave generated by the colossal fourth and final explosion radiated out from Krakatoa at 1,086 km/h (675 mph). The eruption is estimated to have reached 310 dB, loud enough to be heard clearly 5,000 kilometres (3,100 mi) away.[6]:248 It was so powerful that it ruptured the eardrums of sailors 64 km (40 miles) away on ships in the Sunda Strait,

[Gus]

yeah the long humiliating lines of supplicants outside the US consulates here and the scowling security bossing people around tell their own tale.

in that case "who is forcing you to come" line will be taken.

but that line is not applicable for GoI services to people who gave up the passport.

[Javee]

I can only shudder what the krakatoa explosion must have been like - cosmic in scale - the third eye - twilight of the gods ... the awakening of Azathoth..sleeps eternally, lulled by the music of a lesser deity who must drum for ever, "for if he cease for an instant then He will start awake, and there will be worlds nor gods no more

Hold on to your dhoti, there are more sinister things that are in the making,



Russian scientists recently discovered 7,000 earthen knobs erupting from the Siberian Arctic, each the size of a small hill. It was as though the permafrost had broken out into giant grass-covered mounds. What’s more, an unknown number of these bubbles could contain methane and explode, forming craters, the Siberian Times reported.
http://siberiantimes.com/science/casest ... in-arctic/

More pics,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ussia.html

[Singha]

this here is the most costly chicken breed in the world...Kadaknath..a native breed of chattisgarh and jharkhand.
on any yardstick it beats the broilers. its black all over including even its meat and organs...a true silent black ops type.

[rsingh]

Healthcare is a minefield anywhere in the world.

No system is perfect, no country is perfect, no doctor is perfect. The best you can hope for is that when you are ill, you will end up seeing a physician who is honest. He may still be incompetent and kill you, but that is a different problem altogether. The worst that can happen to you is a physician who is not only incompetent but also corrupt and greedy. You then lose a lot more besides your money.

All other things being equal, you are better off in a system where there are extensive checks and balances and licensing requirements to maintain a certain level of functionality both at the level of the physician and the hospital. You may still meet a doctor who is not as capable, but the various agencies that monitor his performance provide some level of confidence to the patient.

In a totally capitated system like in the UK, one hopes that the lack of care, i.e. tests and procedures or expensive medications is because there is no medical indication for it, in a fee-for-service environment like the US (and perhaps India), provision of such care should be because there is a medical need for it without a financial incentive. Hard to know what the truth is unless you are a physician yourself and even then it can be difficult.

One area where there is indeed a difference from the patient's perspective is information. From my experience and that of family, it is much harder to discuss certain things with high-level physicians in India. In the US, for example you could see the Chief of Surgery at Columbia and he will still spend enough time with you in consultation and answer all your questions. The medical record (EMR now) in the US is also much more comprehensive and the system allows patients and family total transparency by law. You can take the entire copy of your chart and all your results with you to another physician or just keep a copy for yourself. There are portals that allow the patient total access to his medical information online.

We are currently dealing with the situation of a close family member in India with advanced cancer that is inoperable. I won't go into the details of the problems that they are having in a well known hospital system in Delhi, but it does reflect on the lack of a proper system. The same things if they happened here would immediately send up a flag and be identified as incompetence with consequences to follow.

Nop. In old Europe it is quite good. we pay a monthly amount (depends upon your income) and all medical bills are reimbursed (fully or at least 80%). I have diabetes. All my medications are free. 80% of consultation fee is paid by. I can go to any clinic or doctor. I can claim even gym fee I want ( hate gym, that is another story). I think it is "perfect".

[Suraj]

I think you’re mistaken. Indian consulates in the US have as its functions to provide passports to Indians, OCI to PIOs, and visas of different categories. By not doing these jobs well does not mean they are providing better services to you as an Indian citizen inside or outside of India. To the contrary, if they can’t provide KJo proper services for an OCI, then tell me how do you expect the consulate to provide passport services to an Indian citizen in the US? This is not a case of one over another.

A nation's mission in another country first serves the interests of the nation and its own citizens. It's most definitely a case of one over the other - services for citizens get higher priority. It is not India specific. It's the general rule.

I applied for a passport renewal within the past year at CGISF. The process was extremely smooth, and I had the new passport in hand in under a week from the day I sent the documents to them. The entire process was clearly explained and and interface via the third party was well done. Having obtained UQ, EU, Japan and Singapore visas for work and and leisure within the past year, the Indian passport renewal was easily the best experience, with Singapore visa being the only other pleasant one.

The same is true for US citizen services vs US consular services , as well as Japanese citizen services vs consular services to foreigners. I've seen all three first hand through family , since my son is a dual Japanese and American passport holder. This applies in multiple ways. The passport counter is staffed immediately, with FAR greater politeness and desire to help (by the same person).

I had the funny and absurd experience at SF Japanese Consulate, holding my infant son and getting his Japanese passport from a smiling helpful Japanese consular lady, then switching 2 counters to deal with the SAME lady now looking pokerfaced at *my* visa paperwork, while I was still holding my son with my wife beside. all just because I happened to be dealing with a citizenship matter for my son first and then a visa matter for me.

Enough of this OCI/PIO whining. None of the bious pronouncements about those problems matter in the context of what their own nations offer an Indian passport holder.

[KJo]

College in Kerala banned jeans. The women came in lungis.


No dhoti shivering by these ladies.

[Singha]

I doubt its true news. could be a cultural function dance team getting ready for the stage.

[Karthik]

Anyone participating in Swadeshi Indology conference in Chennai this month?

[Singha]

saw the MS Dhoni movie a couple of times. what a amazingly driven and talented human

we are lucky to have him lead the transition from the saurav ganguly team into the virat kohli team.

its like a F-15E handing the baton to a F22/LRS-B

seems to be the first indian captain ever not from a major city & establishment ... changing times ... I recall one of his first ODI innings where he smashed around 138 runs , in his wild man long hair days ...

[Primus]

Healthcare is a minefield anywhere in the world.

No system is perfect, no country is perfect, no doctor is perfect. The best you can hope for is that when you are ill, you will end up seeing a physician who is honest. He may still be incompetent and kill you, but that is a different problem altogether. The worst that can happen to you is a physician who is not only incompetent but also corrupt and greedy. You then lose a lot more besides your money.

All other things being equal, you are better off in a system where there are extensive checks and balances and licensing requirements to maintain a certain level of functionality both at the level of the physician and the hospital. You may still meet a doctor who is not as capable, but the various agencies that monitor his performance provide some level of confidence to the patient.

In a totally capitated system like in the UK, one hopes that the lack of care, i.e. tests and procedures or expensive medications is because there is no medical indication for it, in a fee-for-service environment like the US (and perhaps India), provision of such care should be because there is a medical need for it without a financial incentive. Hard to know what the truth is unless you are a physician yourself and even then it can be difficult.

One area where there is indeed a difference from the patient's perspective is information. From my experience and that of family, it is much harder to discuss certain things with high-level physicians in India. In the US, for example you could see the Chief of Surgery at Columbia and he will still spend enough time with you in consultation and answer all your questions. The medical record (EMR now) in the US is also much more comprehensive and the system allows patients and family total transparency by law. You can take the entire copy of your chart and all your results with you to another physician or just keep a copy for yourself. There are portals that allow the patient total access to his medical information online.

We are currently dealing with the situation of a close family member in India with advanced cancer that is inoperable. I won't go into the details of the problems that they are having in a well known hospital system in Delhi, but it does reflect on the lack of a proper system. The same things if they happened here would immediately send up a flag and be identified as incompetence with consequences to follow.

Nop. In old Europe it is quite good. we pay a monthly amount (depends upon your income) and all medical bills are reimbursed (fully or at least 80%). I have diabetes. All my medications are free. 80% of consultation fee is paid by. I can go to any clinic or doctor. I can claim even gym fee I want ( hate gym, that is another story). I think it is "perfect".

You may be close to being perfect but all things considered you probably are not. I worked for six years in the British NHS and from what I hear things are much the same as they used to be. I have close friends here from UK and the experience of their family back in the mother country does illustrate several issues.

Probably in Germany and elsewhere on the mainland things are better but one can only compare with what is available elsewhere.

In a 'perfect system' you would have the following options:

1. No special healthcare tax or insurance premiums. Every citizen has free healthcare, paid for by the state without co-payments or deductibles billed to the patient.

2. Choice and Access: you have universal access to the best physicians of your choice

3. Availability of treatment options: You do not have to wait one year for a hernia repair or a knee replacement. You can receive chemo, radiation, nursing care without delay or without the physician telling you no. The decision whether you want dialysis at 90 or not should be yours to make.

Such a system is obviously untenable given the huge costs involved. Thus,

The reality is as follows:

1. Premiums: You say you pay a certain amount every month based on your income for your health care. That is an additional income tax, which is not present in the UK. Instead, there is a tiny co-payment for medications received as outpatient. There is no healthcare tax in the US either, although we all pay a 'medicare tax' which is the same percentage for everyone, but does not benefit you until you are 65. You pay your premiums to the insurance company which vary greatly depending on several factors. If you are eligible for Medicaid, you pay nothing per month, all your medications are covered for free or for simply $2 per prescription. Same if you are older and qualify for Medicare. Insurance premiums for the rest can be huge and that is the major problem with the US system.

You say you pay 20% of your healthcare costs on top of a monthly payment in taxes. That is a huge amount of money depending upon what care or treatment you get. For example if you need open heart surgery, you may end up paying a ton of money, what about maintenance dialysis, long term nursing care, those are all big ticket items.

2. Choice: This is the reason most often cited by those who want to maintain the status quo in the US. I can go to any physician in the country as can anybody who chooses the 'out of network' option. You do pay more for it but it is a great option if you have serious health issues. Locally, even 'in network' the choice of physicians is more than enough and you can go to anybody you like. This is NOT the case in the NHS where you are assigned a family physician based on your residence (you do have a very limited choice within your geographic area). This person then controls which specialist you end up seeing and where. I don't know how it is in mainland Europe. You may be able to go to any 'clinic', but can you go see any specialist anywhere in your country, without a 'referral'?

3. Access: within the American system, you can see any specialist anywhere without needing to go through a gatekeeper primary physician although Medicaid has some restrictions in certain plans. You can also go to any lab or radiology facility. Most importantly, you can usually see a physician in less than 24 hrs or at least within the same week, including specialists - again this depends upon the area you live in and the population density of physicians. In the NY metro area, you are able to see a physician of your choice as often as you like and within a few days at most. In the UK you may need to wait for weeks or months. If you need a procedure, eg. surgery or endoscopy, you can get an appointment for it within a few days or a couple of weeks. In the UK you may wait as much as a year for a hernia repair or a hip replacement. Again, don't know the stats in Europe.

4. Treatment Options: This is a huge area of discrepancy between different systems. Assuming you are 'covered' i.e. insured through whatever means, you can pretty much get anything done in the US system, from dialysis to bypass surgery, chemo, home nursing visits, physical therapy, even long term nursing care in a facility, which may include ventilator support till you die. I don't know of any country where they have nursing homes with ventilators for long term maintenance for free. Whether this is a good idea or not is debatable, but the point is that it is available. In UK you won't get dialysis if you are 90 yrs old, you won't get vascular surgery if you smoke, you won't get chemo and radiation for advanced cancer if the physician thinks it is not going to prolong your life beyond a certain time. In the US the patient controls the options and the physician goes along with them. Of course this means a huge expenditure and that is why the American system is going bust.

In summary, Europe/UK limits access to, choice of and availability of physician and treatment options based on what the society as a whole decides is the best approach to each disease. In the US, healthcare is driven by the patient's decision. Thus, 'do not resuscitate' orders are put in the chart by a young resident in the UK, in the US they can only be done if the patient or his proxy decides to do it. I have seen people in their late 80s walk out of the hospital and live for several years after going through intensive treatment including ventilator care and dialysis here in the US, they would have been labeled 'not for 222 (in hospital cardiac arrest line)' in the UK and allowed to die. I have seen gunshot victims receive 30-40 units of blood in two hours and leave the hospital alive after having emergency repair of their IVC.

However, the US as a whole pays a phenomenal price for this level of care. And it is increasing exponentially year after year.

In the UK and elsewhere in the rich world, healthcare costs are a fraction, yet the indices of the nation's health overall are better than the US. However, for individuals it is not perfect. Thus, the rights of the individual trump those of the society in the American system while those of the society prevail in Europe.

I don't know which is better. I suppose if you or your loved one is sick you don't care about society, you want what's best for you. And that sums it up. Nobody and nothing is perfect.

[Gus]

Flynn now being charged with making false statements. looks like he will turn..his legal team notifying Trump's team is touted as indication of that.

[Gus]

Flynn pleads guilty to the one charge. More indications that plea deal is there, as he is liable in some other counts that are not being charged.

[Mort Walker]

A nation's mission in another country first serves the interests of the nation and its own citizens. It's most definitely a case of one over the other - services for citizens get higher priority. It is not India specific. It's the general rule.

I applied for a passport renewal within the past year at CGISF. The process was extremely smooth, and I had the new passport in hand in under a week from the day I sent the documents to them. The entire process was clearly explained and and interface via the third party was well done. Having obtained UQ, EU, Japan and Singapore visas for work and and leisure within the past year, the Indian passport renewal was easily the best experience, with Singapore visa being the only other pleasant one.

The same is true for US citizen services vs US consular services , as well as Japanese citizen services vs consular services to foreigners. I've seen all three first hand through family , since my son is a dual Japanese and American passport holder. This applies in multiple ways. The passport counter is staffed immediately, with FAR greater politeness and desire to help (by the same person).

I had the funny and absurd experience at SF Japanese Consulate, holding my infant son and getting his Japanese passport from a smiling helpful Japanese consular lady, then switching 2 counters to deal with the SAME lady now looking pokerfaced at *my* visa paperwork, while I was still holding my son with my wife beside. all just because I happened to be dealing with a citizenship matter for my son first and then a visa matter for me.

Enough of this OCI/PIO whining. None of the bious pronouncements about those problems matter in the context of what their own nations offer an Indian passport holder.

You missed the point.

You got your Japanese visa in a timely manner as the Japanese consulate did its job as it was the same person who handled your son’s passport and your visa. In KJo’s instance, they were not doing their job in a timely manner by the same group of persons providing services at the Indian Consulate. No one cares if they smile or are polite. Just get the job done. The GoI is under NO obligation to provide OCI services to PIOs. Which is fine, but they are the ones advocating the OCI to PIOs and asking PIOs to invest in India. This is disingenuously advertised. Your child is of Japanese origin and the Japanese counsulate is providing services to him as they see him as a Japanese citizen. KJo’s child is Indian origin and the Indian counsulate is suppose to treat him as an Indian citizen, but is not providing services to him. It would simply be better off to eliminate the OCI and ask every non-citizen to apply for visa under the given category. None of my kids have an OCI since I know it’s a scam, they apply for a visa and travel every year as necessary complying with the law.

[Marten]

>>KJo’s child is Indian origin and the Indian counsulate is suppose to treat him as an Indian citizen, but is not providing services to him.
Nope. OCI is not the same as being a citizen. My taxes pay for the services, and I would rather have them focus first on things that citizens need. You are welcome to continue applying for a visa and visit. We are like this onlee and you are welcome to crib onlee. Just don't make them spend our precious monies on ensuring an awesome experience for you. It sounds rude, but seriously, that is how it must be. It is that way with every other nation.

Now, coming to the matter of online services, over the past 7 years, I have seen a sea change in the manner in which services have been offered and availed. I still do not have a license but that is because you cannot pass the test without paying the chappie. Even for a renewal. Even for accepting an NOC from a different state (that I got for free, without any bribe). I would really like the Bangalore One model to be more widely propagated across all other states. Eliminating the public interfaces ensures lack of opportunities for corruption. Passport applications in India are now a dream. I say this after having applied four times, plus 3 times for SHQ. I don't remember having to pay a bribe at the police station even though they coerced me into going over -- the constable was well read and polite. He even suggested a darshini where I could get a decent kaapi.

[Raja]

Modi invasion on Sentosa Island Singapore too. As SHQ put it, can you imagine pappu or manmohan featuring on such a poster?

[Mort Walker]

>>KJo’s child is Indian origin and the Indian counsulate is suppose to treat him as an Indian citizen, but is not providing services to him.
Nope. OCI is not the same as being a citizen. My taxes pay for the services, and I would rather have them focus first on things that citizens need. You are welcome to continue applying for a visa and visit. We are like this onlee and you are welcome to crib onlee. Just don't make them spend our precious monies on ensuring an awesome experience for you. It sounds rude, but seriously, that is how it must be. It is that way with every other nation.

Now, coming to the matter of online services, over the past 7 years, I have seen a sea change in the manner in which services have been offered and availed. I still do not have a license but that is because you cannot pass the test without paying the chappie. Even for a renewal. Even for accepting an NOC from a different state (that I got for free, without any bribe). I would really like the Bangalore One model to be more widely propagated across all other states. Eliminating the public interfaces ensures lack of opportunities for corruption. Passport applications in India are now a dream. I say this after having applied four times, plus 3 times for SHQ. I don't remember having to pay a bribe at the police station even though they coerced me into going over -- the constable was well read and polite. He even suggested a darshini where I could get a decent kaapi.

OCI - Overseas Citizen of India. It avails parity with Indian citizens except any public sector employment, military service, voting rights and running for political office. If you feel that Indian consulate officers should deliberately be assholes to PIOs, that's fine, but don't advertise and promote OCI application and send consulate generals traveling across the US for promoting investment in India by PIOs. That time and money should be reserved for Indian citizens as opposed to running a scam. It would simply be better that GoI treat ex-Indian citizens and their families as untouchables. Similar to the US which doesn't issue any sort of dual citizenship. Thank goodness Indian consulates process visa applications without issue if you have all of your paperwork. BTW, they've always been polite and courteous to me and my family, but of course no in my family has applied for OCI. Yet we have been encouraged to do so. KJo had it right - just because the US or another country consular services are assholes doesn't mean Indian Consulates should be too.

[Marten]

I'm happy they're doing a good job for the citizens of the US who spend good money visiting their country of origin. In terms of tourism, yes, it makes sense for them to promote the nation but really, PIOs are not in the top ten investors in India. We need all PIOs to retain their links for cultural reasons but have to find a balance between handling power tantrums vs. the payoff. Eventually I hope the services provided by VFS improve to a point where ex citizens are also happy with the service levels.

RB, running CIM? Will be cheering for the crowds midway so lemme know if you're running. Will hold some or the other embarrassing banner for ya.

[Vyoman]

I want all OCI kids to get OCI. Per the laws it applies only to those parents who naturalized elsewhere but had Indian citizenship by birth. Now it is up to the kids to convert back to Indians citizenship by domicile after 5 years in the future.