Election Discussions - National, State etc

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darshhan
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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by darshhan » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:01 pm

Vikas wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:23 pm
But key question remains, If BJP can not repeat 100% of 2014, from where they will get majority in 2019 ?
The key question is where will congress get even the 44 seats it is left with.

As far as BJP is concerned, why be obsessed with 100% repetition? Why not target 125 or 150% improvement over past performance?

The people(68-74%) are with BJP. That includes most of the hindus(core and non core both).

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by Gus » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:04 pm

darshhan wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:01 pm
The key question is where will congress get even the 44 seats it is left with.

As far as BJP is concerned, why be obsessed with 100% repetition? Why not target 125 or 150% improvement over past performance?

The people(68-74%) are with BJP. That includes most of the hindus(core and non core both).
jigjackly...

this "will we win..will we win" dhoti shiver betrays lack of confidence in the govt.

govt has performed. party will campaign. amit shah will strategize. and modi will put in the hours during campaign.

they have done the hard work and will do the hard work in the last stretch.

all we have to do is show up and bear the inconvenience of the queue and vote.

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by Gus » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:15 pm

let's not shy away from what the govt achieved...

put in a robust defense (factual, rhetoric etc as appropriate to audience) wherever you see BS about stuff like 15 lakh (X amount is per capita debt on each Indian, are you sending a check?), demo deaths (poor economy growth over decades killed more), petrol price (tell states to reduce VAT) etc.

the democrats did that with obamacare and paid dearly. they were meek and did not robustly take it to vast majority of low-informed americans resulting in stupid stuff like people yelling "take your government hands off my medicare" :roll: and poor people voting against their economic interests..

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by darshhan » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:15 pm

JohnTitor wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 10:28 am
darshhan wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:25 am
Dont worry Vikas babu. These are just bypolls. As far as kairana is concerned, the most important issue is Islam for both hindu and muslim voters. It is a question of both eventual dominance and survival.

Now hindu voters are generally lethargic during bypolls. But will they be lethargic during 2019? That is the question.
The numbers are stacked against Hindus. Even if 100% Hindus vote for BJP, they can't win. That's demographics for you
Kairana lok sabha is 60-65% hindu and 35-40% islamic. People are confusing kairana lok sabha with kairana town statistics. Kairana town is just one of the assembly constituencies within kairana lok sabha.

Last time in 2014 Hukum Singh ji won with 50.5% of total votes casted. Turnout percentage was more than 73%. This time turnout percentage was 54%. A fall of almost 20%.

Still the BJP candidate( daughter of the deceased Hukum singh) won more than 46% of the total votes casted. This when Namo was not in action and the candidate has no where near the pull that her father had.

Hindu voter is saving his fight for the next great war.

And this core vs non core issues is mostly irrelevant in elections except for Ram Mandir(that too only in UP, Bihar and other northern states regions). Change in RTE and release of govt control over temples will not increase BJP's voteshare by even 1% as of now. It is sad but true. These issues are low priority wrt electoral actions of most of the BJP voters.

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by MehtaRahulC » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:13 am

Many parties such congress/rss/aap do NOT mobilize cadres and voters in bypolls and do mobilize voters / workers only in main polls

Mobilization requires making huge number fake promises, giving tall emotional speeches full of lies and half truths and so on. If done during bypoll, then these lies and emotional shrill speeches will not work in main poll. And so they keep these lies, emotional talks etc for main poll

If mobilization is based truth, then voters / workers can be mobilized during bypoll as well as main poll. But all parties such as congress/rss/aap now run their cmapings on lies, half truths, emotional melodrama only. And so they cant use these lies etc in bypolls.

----

bikau Swaraj magazine says that Kairana loksabha has 17 lakh voters of which 5 lakh are muslims. So about 32% of all voter population is muslim.

What was % of muslim in those who voted? I dont know, and maybe , no one knows. But political parties can get a good count if they had polling agents in all booths. My guess is that of those who voted, 40% to 45% were muslims, and rest were Hindus.

So as many as 15% to 20% Hindus , who voted, didnt vote for RSS.

Every Hindu understands that islamist violence is threat to himself as well as all Hindus in India. But many Hindus know and many more are now realizing that RSS leaders and RSS workers are all 100% fake solution. . And so many Hindus are not voting for RSS = BJP.

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by Raj Malhotra » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:30 am

If Congress comes to power EJ might convert Hindus to Christianity but BJP in power is turning Hindu middle class into paupers while selling off big business to Foreign ers who are emmm Abrahamics! Which is a bigger evil for Hindu trying to feed his family? Guess what can happen in 2019?

On the other hand Modi and Amit Shah who are consumate politicians seem very confident, wonder why?

BJP even with Ram Mandir will not get more than 160 seats in Lok Sabha elections in face of Mahagathbandhan unless there is a war with Pakistan

But Indian military is not even remotely ready for any war. So perhaps a big Skirmish inflated by propaganda and TV to seem like a war

Or perhaps Modi=Gorby, has had his fun and would not mind turning over the leadership of the nation to Rahul Gandhi=Yeltsin

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by manju » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Himmat rakho... lungi shiver nahi karna..

too much nervousness... Yes, it wont be easy but we will reach 120% of 2014 (as some one said).

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by Vikas » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:38 pm

Raj Malhotra wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:30 am
If Congress comes to power EJ might convert Hindus to Christianity but BJP in power is turning Hindu middle class into paupers while selling off big business to Foreign ers who are emmm Abrahamics! Which is a bigger evil for Hindu trying to feed his family? Guess what can happen in 2019?

On the other hand Modi and Amit Shah who are consumate politicians seem very confident, wonder why?

BJP even with Ram Mandir will not get more than 160 seats in Lok Sabha elections in face of Mahagathbandhan unless there is a war with Pakistan

But Indian military is not even remotely ready for any war. So perhaps a big Skirmish inflated by propaganda and TV to seem like a war

Or perhaps Modi=Gorby, has had his fun and would not mind turning over the leadership of the nation to Rahul Gandhi=Yeltsin
How load of BS gets traction without any iota of evidence, not even empirical. Care to name few big businesses that got sold to Xtians and Islamists by GoI ? :)) :))

PS: Congress "might" let EJ convert Hindus (or might not) but NM definitely is selling family jewels. How cho chweet :facepalm:

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by AbhishekC » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:51 pm

Raj Malhotra wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:30 am
If Congress comes to power EJ might convert Hindus to Christianity but BJP in power is turning Hindu middle class into paupers while selling off big business to Foreign ers who are emmm Abrahamics! Which is a bigger evil for Hindu trying to feed his family? Guess what can happen in 2019?

On the other hand Modi and Amit Shah who are consumate politicians seem very confident, wonder why?

BJP even with Ram Mandir will not get more than 160 seats in Lok Sabha elections in face of Mahagathbandhan unless there is a war with Pakistan

But Indian military is not even remotely ready for any war. So perhaps a big Skirmish inflated by propaganda and TV to seem like a war

Or perhaps Modi=Gorby, has had his fun and would not mind turning over the leadership of the nation to Rahul Gandhi=Yeltsin
Finally somebody made a sane comment.

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by AbhishekC » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:36 pm

Vikas wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:38 pm
How load of BS gets traction without any iota of evidence, not even empirical. Care to name few big businesses that got sold to Xtians and Islamists by GoI ? :)) :))

PS: Congress "might" let EJ convert Hindus (or might not) but NM definitely is selling family jewels. How cho chweet :facepalm:
Saudi Aramco picks up 50% stake in Maharashtra refinery
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 712015.cms

The company to watch is Softbank - it has 45% stake of the Saudi royals, the remaining is with RoL.

Softbank is an investor in both Uber and Ola - and since they invested in these two companies - fares have risen 25% - mainly through fraud routes and elongated routes.

What else?

GIFT City is allowing Islamic funds to invest in India through Islamic finance, even though it is banned by RBI.

Don't even get me started on Amazon (CIA/NSA front) and Flipkart (EJ front now that Walmart is invested).

And as a bonus, here are the Chinese.

Alibaba stake in Paytm is the single largest threat in mobile finance related spying.

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by Raj Malhotra » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:55 pm

Flipkart to Amazon, this deal alone will destroy most of India Retailers.
Larsan Toubro Electric Division
Indian Railway Engine manufacturing Unit
Rampant Chinese Imports
Essar oil refinery
Essar Steel, BPSL, Fortis, Amtek Auto are also going

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by AbhishekC » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:29 pm

And the fire sale of Indian assets to foreigners has only just begun - this was one of the main reasons demo was conducted (to destroy potential Indian buyers for these assets).

Air India most likely will be bought by a middle eastern airline - probably Etihad, which is already invested in Jet.

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by Raj Malhotra » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:50 pm

Typo, I meant Flipkart to Walmart

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by KL Dubey » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:16 pm

Vikas wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:38 pm
How load of BS gets traction without any iota of evidence, not even empirical. Care to name few big businesses that got sold to Xtians and Islamists by GoI ? :)) :))

PS: Congress "might" let EJ convert Hindus (or might not) but NM definitely is selling family jewels. How cho chweet :facepalm:
I'd say you have yourself to blame...asking panicky questions and thereby activating the well known trolls too. I guess the next couple of days of this thread will be :facepalm:

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by KL Dubey » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:46 pm

AbhishekC wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:51 pm
Raj Malhotra wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:30 am
Or perhaps Modi=Gorby, has had his fun and would not mind turning over the leadership of the nation to Rahul Gandhi=Yeltsin
Finally somebody made a sane comment.
The fact that you thought his comment was "sane" confirms my opinions about the two of you!

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by AbhishekC » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:17 pm

KL Dubey wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:46 pm
The fact that you thought his comment was "sane" confirms my opinions about the two of you!
So? :lol:

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by Gus » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:15 am

cut it out people. don't waste time rehashing the same stale stuff.

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by JohnTitor » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:22 am

I'm sorry. Amazon and Walmart are now EJ?? Wow that's a great CT

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by Sachin » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:39 am

Raj Malhotra wrote:If Congress comes to power EJ might convert Hindus to Christianity but BJP in power is turning Hindu middle class into paupers while selling off big business to Foreign ers who are emmm Abrahamics! Which is a bigger evil for Hindu trying to feed his family? Guess what can happen in 2019?
Can you explain how Hindu middle class is being made into paupers? And off course Hindus owning big business can never be called middle class.
Which is a bigger evil for Hindu trying to feed his family?
Can you highlight a few things which Na.Mo brought in, which made it difficult for Hindus to feed their families? It has been four years of his government now.

PS: A lot of people including Hindus got a good "hair cut" due to De.Mo. That is a fact. A lot of Hindus also indulge in corruption and shady business, that is also a fact. If these "Hindus" felt that Na.Mo would come up with a scheme which would help them run their shady business, while only s-crewing the shady business of minority religion people, it was their fault.

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by Primus » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:40 am

^

The most fierce opponents of Modi who are Hindu but not politically aligned against him are those who lost a lot of money during DeMo. Or, they were into business practices that were downright shady and cannot now continue with the status quo. For them it has been a big loss and I can understand why they are so bitterly opposed to the BJP or Modi. Of course they live in a fool's paradise if they believe the Congoons will do anything for the Hindus. And yet, for them, monetary gains are more important than any faith or religion. This too is understandable and I've known a few people like this myself. They will build temples and are key members of local committees that ostensibly are for the betterment of the Hindu masses. Their Gods are money and societal status, which are more important than spiritual satisfaction. It is no wonder then that they are bitter critics of Modi and his policies.

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by Sachin » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:05 am

Primus wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:40 am
And yet, for them, monetary gains are more important than any faith or religion. This too is understandable and I've known a few people like this myself. They will build temples and are key members of local committees that ostensibly are for the betterment of the Hindu masses. Their Gods are money and societal status...
Off topic. <Rant>. Hinduism may be the only religion which has this concept of bribery to placate its gods. Do any mischief or crime, the plan to get out of it would be to spend money on the temples & gods. This bribery is known as poojas/sevas etc. and who can bribe more lavishly is expected to get out of his/her sins quickly. Annadanams may be an exception this. I feel that opportunities of spiritual awakening etc. slowly starts fading once these kind of do any crime, do pooja and get away with it kind of mind set sets in.</Rant>

Came back to say...
Rs 24,000 Crore Deposited By 73,000 Deregistered Companies Post Demonetization, Says Report .
Don't know how many middle class Hindus have become paupers because of this :roll: .

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by Vikas » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:16 pm

Primus wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:40 am
^

The most fierce opponents of Modi who are Hindu but not politically aligned against him are those who lost a lot of money during DeMo. Or, they were into business practices that were downright shady and cannot now continue with the status quo. For them it has been a big loss and I can understand why they are so bitterly opposed to the BJP or Modi. Of course they live in a fool's paradise if they believe the Congoons will do anything for the Hindus. And yet, for them, monetary gains are more important than any faith or religion. This too is understandable and I've known a few people like this myself. They will build temples and are key members of local committees that ostensibly are for the betterment of the Hindu masses. Their Gods are money and societal status, which are more important than spiritual satisfaction. It is no wonder then that they are bitter critics of Modi and his policies.
Primus ji, I think it is a bad line to follow and say that Hindus opposed to Modi Ji lost money in DeMo.
There are people who are dissatisfied with NM's govt for whatever reasons. Some thought that all corruption problems will disappear overnight, while others expected to see whole of last Govt including Italian mafia in Tihar.
One can't just brush everyone aside and yet expect to win elections. It is job of the leader to energise its supporters and fence sitters, to say and expect that all Hindus must somehow fall in love NM and start hating every other political party is recipe for disaster.
If you ask a common man, what he wants from Govt as a follower of Sanatan dharma, I don't think you will hear anything except for some mumbo-jumbo.

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by RamaY » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:20 pm

Sachin wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:05 am
Primus wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:40 am
And yet, for them, monetary gains are more important than any faith or religion. This too is understandable and I've known a few people like this myself. They will build temples and are key members of local committees that ostensibly are for the betterment of the Hindu masses. Their Gods are money and societal status...
Off topic. <Rant>. Hinduism may be the only religion which has this concept of bribery to placate its gods. Do any mischief or crime, the plan to get out of it would be to spend money on the temples & gods. This bribery is known as poojas/sevas etc. and who can bribe more lavishly is expected to get out of his/her sins quickly. Annadanams may be an exception this. I feel that opportunities of spiritual awakening etc. slowly starts fading once these kind of do any crime, do pooja and get away with it kind of mind set sets in.</Rant>

Came back to say...
Rs 24,000 Crore Deposited By 73,000 Deregistered Companies Post Demonetization, Says Report .
Don't know how many middle class Hindus have become paupers because of this :roll: .
I am sorry but this is very idiotic understanding of how Hindu Dharma and Karma works.

Just by doing any Annadana, donations, pujas one is not going to get away from the Papa-Karma one accumulated. Good deeds give you Punya same as bad deeds give you Papa. Karma doesn't aggregate one's good/bad deeds into a credit score and make one born in Gulf or Gujarat.

Karma delivers the consequences of every one of your actions separately at an appropriate time and appropriate channels. Often these results come thru Dara-Putra (Wife and Kids) because we get to "experience" both good/bad coming from them more intensely.

The Karma is such a Dharma that even the god-realized (like Ramana Maharshi) or even Devas (like Indra {Vritrasura story}, Yama Dharma Raja {Mandavya story} etc) cant escape the consequences of their actions.

So the logic that Hinduism may be the only religion which as this concept of bribery is Christian Crypto nonsense. Please don't spread that.

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by Supratik » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:41 pm

Vikas, Primus is talking about the corrupt people who shout "Hindusthan zindabad" but find ways to steal money. You will find a few on this forum and BRF. They are now anti-Modi.


RamaY, Sachin is talking about people like Laloo and Devegowda who are doing pooja path and havan everyday but are corrupt to the bone. They don't have a proper and mature understanding of karma and dharma.

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Re: Election Discussions - National, State etc

Post by Primus » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:44 pm

Vikas wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:16 pm
Primus wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:40 am
^

The most fierce opponents of Modi who are Hindu but not politically aligned against him are those who lost a lot of money during DeMo. Or, they were into business practices that were downright shady and cannot now continue with the status quo. For them it has been a big loss and I can understand why they are so bitterly opposed to the BJP or Modi. Of course they live in a fool's paradise if they believe the Congoons will do anything for the Hindus. And yet, for them, monetary gains are more important than any faith or religion. This too is understandable and I've known a few people like this myself. They will build temples and are key members of local committees that ostensibly are for the betterment of the Hindu masses. Their Gods are money and societal status, which are more important than spiritual satisfaction. It is no wonder then that they are bitter critics of Modi and his policies.
Primus ji, I think it is a bad line to follow and say that Hindus opposed to Modi Ji lost money in DeMo.
There are people who are dissatisfied with NM's govt for whatever reasons. Some thought that all corruption problems will disappear overnight, while others expected to see whole of last Govt including Italian mafia in Tihar.
Vikas Ji, I agree that not every Modi-hater or anti-BJP person lost money in DeMo. If you read my post carefully, it is just ONE of the reasons, especially for somebody who previously was a pro-BJP person (as some say on this board itself).

Those who expected corruption to disappear or the Congoon Mafia to be in Jail overnight are again either incredibly naive or do not know human psychology or behavior. The average Babu, contractor, business-man, policeman, lawyer, heck all of us at some point have been part of the same corrupt system and unless there is a paradigm shift in behavior there will be no lasting change in the Indian society. Laws can only work if enforced and the enforcers can easily look the other way for monetary or other gains, which is what was happening in the past. I am sure it is still happening to some extent. Change of this magnitude takes a long time. The same applies to 'punishing' the guilty. Their cronies and supporters are so deeply entrenched in the halls of justice that it is not going to be a cakewalk. To this you add a highly hostile media environment and you realize how difficult, almost Sisyphean a task it is for Modi.
One can't just brush everyone aside and yet expect to win elections. It is job of the leader to energise its supporters and fence sitters, to say and expect that all Hindus must somehow fall in love NM and start hating every other political party is recipe for disaster.
I doubt Modi has 'brushed everyone aside'. His slogan, which he has adhered to more than any other politician in Indian history, is 'sabka saath, sabka vikas' and I believe he has done an admirable job. Now, we can all differ in our opinion on this, and I am happy to debate this with anyone, but to say that he has done nothing is at best being disingenuous and at worst truly mendacious.

As far as energizing his supporters, again, I don't know of any other PM of India who spends so much time in speaking to the people and attracts so large a following everywhere he goes. Especially when the media has been hounding him for over a decade.

Nobody expects all Hindus to fall in love with Modi, but one would hope that at least rational and educated Hindus would be able to see that the opposition has never done much for them and that Modi, either directly or through his proxies (Yogi in UP for example) is working to change the status quo.
If you ask a common man, what he wants from Govt as a follower of Sanatan dharma, I don't think you will hear anything except for some mumbo-jumbo.
I tend to agree with you here. Most Hindus have no clue what it means to be a Hindu, even well educated ones. Hard to define Sanatan Dharma even more. However, I am not so sure the average Hindu is unaware of the ethos of the faith he and his ancestors have followed - even if marginally - for centuries. He knows and remembers the atrocities committed against his people - the partition of India is still a living memory for a large number of people either directly or from stories heard from their parents/grandparents. There is also an atavistic or herd memory that I believe we all carry within us somewhere which reminds us in our unguarded moments of events in the distant past.

Having said that, I concur that the majority of Hindus would not know what exactly to ask for, they know they want something, perhaps locally each community want something done, but on a national level, other than RJB for North Indians, I am not sure everyone has a single, specific demand of the BJP government.

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