The Great Indian Political Drama - 1 (Oct 2017 - Mar 2018)

[chetak]

Afaik, several clerics have issued fatwas allowing to Muslims to have sex with a woman's deadbody for upto certain hours after death. There may be even precedence is Islamic history, which we know is a cesspool of epic proportions.

Now do you understand why these unfortunate ladies were forced to commit jauhar??

kindly read this if you have not: how Jauhar was a military tactics and part of scorched earth policy
every pence of jewellery was worn by women while committing Jauhar denying enemy gold & womanhood.
http://www.abplive.in/blog/padmavati-un ... al-warfare

I know about it but I would not call it a scorched earth policy.

[chetak]

Just in case someone (like Darkha Butt) dismisses that as anti-Mooslim propaganda, here is the modern day version of that phenomenon:

From the same link, the usage of carrots as vibrators

Interviewer : You have ruled it permissible for a woman to use a certain vegetable [a carrot] to fulfill her sexual urges.

Abd Al-Bari Al-Zamzami : Yes.

Interviewer : Where did you get this from?

Abd Al-Bari Al-Zamzami : There is a saying that goes: "The less one knows, the more one criticizes." Someone with little knowledge and narrow cultural horizons finds everything he hears to be strange, and so he criticizes it.

I did not invent anything. I merely quoted the early imams. Their fatwa stated that an unmarried woman or a widow who is battling her sexual urges - as a means to avoid the forbidden and to protect her chastity, she may turn to such things to relieve the pressure.

Interviewer : People find this extremely strange.

Abd Al-Bari Al-Zamzami : That's because they are not well-versed in Islamic religious culture.

Islamic religious culture??

WTF would one find carrots in the desert??

[Indrad]

saw padmavati myself
Khilji aka Ranveer was greeted with loud cheer & whistles on screen.
Entire film is about Khilji though it shows negative sides of him but there is lot of pomp & show going along with which ends up glorifying him..
he has been given the most powerful role making sure Khilji remains at centre stage.
Be assured now Khilji is a hero and we will see his masks, attire, dress every where from school to halloween in India.
Bhansali non sense as usual loud & brash: focus on Jauhar for over 30 minutes with no reasoning why ladies resorted to it
Bang your head on Rajputi usool one after another even when enemy is after your ars with illegitimate means
over all a lot of tamasha with no story..

[Trilobite]

Agreed that we need to be more thick skinned and pick battles which are worth fighting but courts are joke in India and for ages, Bhaiwood has been taking liberty with Hindus showing them in debauched state.
Sometimes fear of Vigilantism is a great motivating factor.

Agree that our court/law administration system is not upto the mark. In fact it is one of reason for vigilantism as people think they can get away without being punished for it. Political patronage for vigilantism is another.

Where I disagree with you is that I think the answer lies in strengthening the law administration, people should fear being on the wrong side of law rather than fear vigilantism.

[Shakuni]

^^ I think there's another side to what you say.
The first is of course, that like you say, these vandals think they can get away with murder because the courts are simply not doing their jobs. Another factor is that the courts are more interested in opining on the damage Sri Sri caused to the Yamuna, or on the Quranic implications of Triple Talaq, than take up the crores of cases pending. We all know instances of property cases dragging on for decades, and murder cases dragging on for 8-10 years or more. Once the common man has no confidence that justice will be delivered, vigilantism rises. This becomes even more of a challenge with the judges being a law unto themselves and resisting any ideas on reforming the system.

[chetak]

^^ I think there's another side to what you say.
The first is of course, that like you say, these vandals think they can get away with murder because the courts are simply not doing their jobs. Another factor is that the courts are more interested in opining on the damage Sri Sri caused to the Yamuna, or on the Quranic implications of Triple Talaq, than take up the crores of cases pending. We all know instances of property cases dragging on for decades, and murder cases dragging on for 8-10 years or more. Once the common man has no confidence that justice will be delivered, vigilantism rises. This becomes even more of a challenge with the judges being a law unto themselves and resisting any ideas on reforming the system.

a wise man knows the reasons for someone taking up such cases.

It's what makes the world go around, no??

[Kabir]

It was a case of once bitten twice shy. We need to send a clear message to the film industry that if you want to make a movie on Indian history make it authentic or face the consequences.

I hope you are not threatening more vigilantism. Vigilantism is turning India into banana republic. If people have problems they should approach the courts. More importantly people need to grow a thicker skin and practice some of the "tolerance" they espouse about Hinduism 24 x 7.

Standing your ground on Indic issues is not vigilantism. The tolerance, thick skin, thin consience, ahimsa, athithi devo bhava, sama bhav etc is what we have been practising for the last 800 years for our rapists and enemies

[Trilobite]

Standing your ground on Indic issues is not vigilantism. The tolerance, thick skin, thin consience, ahimsa, athithi devo bhava, sama bhav etc is what we have been practising for the last 800 years for our rapists and enemies

Standing up for ground on indic or any xyz_ic issue can be done within the parameters of law, and democracy provides space for that. Vigilantism is breaking the law and therefore criminal. There is no "good" vigilantism. I can not agree that there is a "kosher" variety of vigilantism.

[Indrad]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 078159001/

8 month old raped by uncle has sparked outrage like Nirbhaya case. baby critical.

[Indrad]

excellent take by Vivek Agnihotri on Swara Bhaskar letter where she feel reduced to vagina cos Bhansali made Padmavati
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/958661159518908419
to cut short: Swara is an urban naxal, they write such letter then play victim card when responded, they try to reduce every discussion around sexuality & vagina so that it discomforts the opponent and those ready to debate can be cornered easily.

[Indrad]

https://thewire.in/219691/amu-campus-vi ... nts-stake/
campus violence (green on green) continues unabated in AMU, national media fails to report

[Aditya_V]

one key takw away from Islamic conquest on India is that don't be weak militarily.
Babar was able to defeat Lodhi + Rajput kings due to his archery & canons. He encircled army of Lodhi and fired canons killing many and frightening elephants. War was over in less than half a day due to superior war technique of Babar.
Rajput kings posed a formidable fight but one of them (Silhadi) defected to Babar's side with 6000 soldiers at a critical moment.
Mughals maintained dominance using firepower, archery & cavalry. No idea why Rajput kings could not acquire that. Also there wa squabbling among them.
India must make sure it has formidable military.

One sees similair behaviour today where the left- INC regularly demean Armed forces and developing military technology today and keep pushign thier Bharat ko tukde tukde Kharaje agenda while cooperating with the Pakis who arm themselves as much as they can.

[abhijit]

Today last opportunity for modi before next election.

[Chandragupta]

Afaik, several clerics have issued fatwas allowing to Muslims to have sex with a woman's deadbody for upto certain hours after death. There may be even precedence is Islamic history, which we know is a cesspool of epic proportions.

Now do you understand why these unfortunate ladies were forced to commit jauhar??

I always knew this. Even before Padmavati. I was told stories by my parents when I was growing up and I am not even close to being a Rajasthani or Rajput.

[Karthik]

one key takw away from Islamic conquest on India is that don't be weak militarily.
Babar was able to defeat Lodhi + Rajput kings due to his archery & canons. He encircled army of Lodhi and fired canons killing many and frightening elephants. War was over in less than half a day due to superior war technique of Babar.
Rajput kings posed a formidable fight but one of them (Silhadi) defected to Babar's side with 6000 soldiers at a critical moment.
Mughals maintained dominance using firepower, archery & cavalry. No idea why Rajput kings could not acquire that. Also there wa squabbling among them.
India must make sure it has formidable military.

One sees similair behaviour today where the left- INC regularly demean Armed forces and developing military technology today and keep pushign thier Bharat ko tukde tukde Kharaje agenda while cooperating with the Pakis who arm themselves as much as they can.

OK you arm yourself to deal with external enemies. How do you deal with internal ones?

[abhijit]

Rajasthan bypoll - cong leading in all 3.

[v_raman]

IMO Indians are the most jealous people in the world. They will go to any length to bring the other side down!

[Indrad]

Dalit-Patidar land dispute reveals Hardik-Jignesh rift https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... TOIDesktop

[Indrad]

Congress winning all 3 seats in Rajasthan. Leads:
Alwar PC: 72K
Ajmer PC: 52K
Mandalgarh AC: 1864

[Vikas]

So Rajasthan is a lost cause. Wonder why Vasundhara Raje was given back the reins of the state. Hopefully Sachin will turn out to be a better administrator (If Gehlot doesn't run circles around him) but in this charged environment, would congress not install some Rajput as CM than a Gurjar or an OBC ?
Meanwhile up north, BJP leadership in J&K is trying its level best to become a also ran player in the local circus with Kashmiri Muslims still running the roost. BJP is almost non existent when comes to policy decisions. For sure they will be wiped out in next elections and you will see return of NC+Cong.

Since Gujarat elections, Congress is making all the right moves especially the misdeeds of Congress are now fading away from public memory.
I am worried more about Karanataka, BJP must not let it slip out of its hands. It is one of the milking cows for Congress.

[Aditya_V]

IMO Indians are the most jealous people in the world. They will go to any length to bring the other side down!

Small Correction

IMO Indians are the most jealous people in the world. They will go to any length to bring the thier side down!- see many leftist-INC supporters, almost all have a soft corner for Pakis and Chinis. In fact, this crowd even deny the Paki terrorists died in an atempted Mumbai II and were "innocent" fishermen, Surgical Strikes happened.

To Karthik, a sick man can never fight, similarly Indians biggest weakness was poor economy and lack of MIC. These are a must as it reduces outside interference and it is less easier to buy out people within.

[Indrad]

Budget:
Rs. 5 lakh per family per year for medical reimbursement under National Health Protection Scheme. This will be world's largest health protection scheme. 10 Cr families and up to 50 Cr people will be benefited.
(govt funded sounds nice but money still needed hopefully tax net will be increased)

[MehtaRahulC]

Khilji aka Ranveer was greeted with loud cheer & whistles on screen. Entire film is about Khilji though it shows negative sides of him but there is lot of pomp & show going along with which ends up glorifying him..
he has been given the most powerful role making sure Khilji remains at centre stage. ... Be assured now Khilji is a hero and we will see his masks, attire, dress every where from school to halloween in India. Bhansali non sense as usual loud & brash: focus on Jauhar for over 30 minutes with no reasoning why ladies resorted to it . Bang your head on Rajputi usool one after another even when enemy is after your ars with illegitimate means .. over all a lot of tamasha with no story..

The central question that I answer is --- what did Modiji and Yogiji gained by ensuring that movie gets unbanned and multiplexes do show the movies. Pls note that -- defacto ban on this movie in Gujarat was against the wish of Modiji and was due to leftover of strength of VHP. Modiji did his best to threaten VHP leaders and volunteers to cow down, but some VHP volunteers persisted. (In Gujarat, Karni Sena is only front --- its all VHP volunteers who provide strength to it). And look the power of BIF ---- just a few days before Padmavati was going to be released, they could convince a Magistrate in Rajasthan to issue a non bailable warrant against Togadiaji, and also convince Rajasthan HomeMin to send 15 constables, 3 PI and one ACP all the way from Rasjathan to Gujarat to arrest Togadiaji !! (plan was to arrest him at 1am and take him out of Gujarat before 6am ) !!!
.
Ban in Rajasthan and MP was also due to raw strength of Karni Sena and VHP. In UP, Yogiji made sure that policemen threaten VHP and Karni Sena to the extent that they dont raise heads and movie becomes successful
.
So pls explain what good or bad gains did Modiji and Yogiji made by ensuring that movie gets unbanned as well as gets shown.
.
That should be the CENTRAL topic of THIS thread. Not history.

As per history ...

In fact, Devagiri had neglected the most basic commodity required to survive a siege – food. The towering fort perched on top of a mountain had a capacity to store a three year supply, but when Khilji attacked, the defenders were shocked to discover the thousands of sacks stored in the granary contained not grain but salt. After a couple of battles, Rama Deva threw in the towel and emptied his treasury for Khilji. The invader took away:

Sounds like corruption to me. That warehouse officers too money from treasury equal to price of grain and bought only salt and pocketed the price difference. So why was corruption higher on sides of kings and lesser on invader side?

{quote] Needless to say, the avaricious Khilji wasn’t going to stay satisfied for long. He was a mere freebooter with just 8000 troops when he defeated Devagiri. ... [/Quote]

So with mere 8000 troops, he defeated several times more army and population which was even more.
.
The invaders had FAR LESS money and their military spending was also FAR LESS in round one. It is evident from the huge money that was spent in making forts and castles. And invaders in round one had LESSER troops - lesser than troops of local kings and not even a fraction of TOTAL population. The invaders won round one because of better weapons, which was due to lesser corruption and better mechanical and metallurgical skills. And later using loot and taxes, they raised more troops. But that was round two. In round one, invaders had less money and less troops. As one postor asked, why couldnt Indian kings back then could make the weapons which invaders made. eg Why couldnt Indian kings make the cannons which Babur had? And same question comes when British came --- Clive had better cannons than Siraj ud Daulla and other Hindu or Muslims kings back then. And in 1857 they had better rifles. So again question is --- why couldnt Indian kings make cannons and rifles that British could make? I have posted my answers on my SM profile. A short summary is --- invaders like Khilaji, Babur had procedure of "gathering" i.e. all men must come at one place at one time once a week, and agenda is controlled by locally person chosen by consensus. And British had procedure of Jury System and election. This improved manufacturing and weapon manufacturing. A long explanation is OST and is on my SM profile
.
RSS-historians cite "lack of unity" as one and only one reason and rss-historians refuse to accept lack of gathering or lack of JurySys as reason. Thats becuase they want to promote the thought that "all must unite under RSS and put with corruption of rss-leaders and not question". RSS-historians dont want people to know or think that administrative procedures like gathering or JurySys play important role in manufacturing and they insist on lack of unity as only factor. But imo, this "lack of unity" is nonsense factor. All Hindus did unite under Chakravarti Samrat Raja Hemchandra (we should NOT use name Hemu). And all Hindus also united under Baji Rao 1. Despite this Hemachandra could defeat Moguls only after taking help from Afghans and Shia, and getting Portugese cannons. And when Moguls , Uzbeks etc regrouped, and Portugese cannons got worn out, Raja Hemachandra lost. Despite huge treasure, Hemchandra was NOT able to make cannons , bows etc as good as Moguls forget Portugese. And Baji Rao 1 too could win ONLY after he got help from Shia and he got French cannons. All throughout, Maratha themselves could not make cannons that would match Moguls forget French or British. Only Sikhs had some limited success. But not comparable to British.

So kings of back in 1100 AD did NOT bring administrative changes need to improve mechanical, metallurgical skills of local Indians. And later Baji Rao 1 too decided to depend on French cannons rather than bring administrative changes that will increase skills of Indian engineers. And today, apex leaders promote FDI in defense rather than bring administrative changes that will increase skills of Indian engineers. More things change, more they remain same.

Solution is to bring ADMINISTRATIVE changes that will increase skills. And ONLY activists may bring these changes, Leaders will not.

------------

But pls focus on question --- what exactly are gains Modiji and Yogiji extracted by not blocking this movie?

[Sachin]

Agree that our court/law administration system is not upto the mark. In fact it is one of reason for vigilantism as people think they can get away without being punished for it. Political patronage for vigilantism is another.

People resort to Vigilantism and mafia style justice only because they see the legal alternative useless and a waste of time (and I agree with what you said). India may be the only country where the highest court in the country is more interested in how the game of cricket is played, and debating on menstrual blood being pure or impure etc. This system which again is a British relic is now clearly proven to be a failure in a big country like India. Same goes with the police and the archiaic laws based on which they operate. I strongly feel that a country's judicial system & law enforcement system should be based on the society of that country. The typical British bobby lifting his "bobby helmet" and saying "good morning" to every lady in the street, would NOT work in India. To be frank in that aspect Saudi Barbaria is better. They have no qualms in gleefully saying that they believe in Islamic jurisprudence, which is good for their society. If people have problems with that then don't try their stunts in Saudi Arabia, simple.

Since Gujarat elections, Congress is making all the right moves especially the misdeeds of Congress are now fading away from public memory. I am worried more about Karanataka, BJP must not let it slip out of its hands. It is one of the milking cows for Congress.

Karnataka, AFAIK is a gone case. In Siddaramiah I see a clear distruptor, who has no qualms in disrupting an existing system, introduce fissures and long term problems, if that can make him achieve his immediate goals. I don't think even the KA Congress leadership has this 'quality'(?) and scheming mind. BJP state level leadership is no where close. BJP is now on their Parivarthan Yathra, and Siddu has managed to have a 'bandh' on the start (Amit Shah in) and conclusion (Modi in) of the event. He has cleverly managed to get the "farmers associations" and Vattal Nagaraj's fringe group to call for bandhs etc. The recent Bandh in Karanataka, was pretty much a "state sponsored one" with even IT companies "encouraged" to close down the shop for a day. In KA, Congress is joining hands with Islamic hard liners like PFI, the are actively fanning "Karnataka pride" (long term problem for the country) and trying to introduce caste based fissures in Karnataka society (Lingayath issue; again long term problem for the state).

[gauravsh]

Budget:
Rs. 5 lakh per family per year for medical reimbursement under National Health Protection Scheme. This will be world's largest health protection scheme. 10 Cr families and up to 50 Cr people will be benefited.
(govt funded sounds nice but money still needed hopefully tax net will be increased)

My organisation provides a cover of only 4 LPA per annually. So I should switch over to govt provided cover now .
Will be interested to see details about how do they collect money for this and hos is this distributed. Given the state of babucracy, if this is not handled wisely can lead to babus minting money. Waiting for details !!