The Great Indian Political Drama - 1 (Oct 2017 - Mar 2018)

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Hari Seldon
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Hari Seldon » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:47 am

^ Thanks for posting that, RD.

My namo-namo to Prof. Julluri for articulating truth so well. And exposing Modi sarkar's inexplicable inaction on this crucial front.

Only.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Primus » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:31 am

^

Prof. Juluri writes very well and with passion. His book 'Rearming Hinduism' is a worthy read, although IMHO it would have done so much better with a different title - it is hard to recommend it as people get put off by the idea of anything that appears to promote a militant form of Hinduism - though in reality it is about being positive.

RD, your comments are so spot on.

I believe as people evolve from 'humble beginnings' to become a part of the urban middle-class they often give up their roots and the desperate need to conform and assimilate requires the sacrifice of native traditions, belief in dharma and a quick adoption of Christmas, Valentine's Day and the tooth fairy! The call-center worker who is forced to learn an American accent and take on an anglo-saxon name becomes Mr Hyde overnight. It is more fun to pretend you are living the American dream. Like the Desi who comes to America and changes his name from Dipak to Di and loses himself in the process.

I mean, it is definitely not 'cool' to be a Hindu nowadays, is it? Especially if you are part of the growing multimedia society that has come to believe Dharma is an anachronism in this day and age and it definitely does not work to be flaunting Indic values openly in today's corporate culture.

I do feel though that there is a J-shaped curve here. As you grow older and/or more affluent there is a growing realization that something is missing in life and you once again begin to gravitate towards your cultural roots. By then it is too late for your kids, but hopefully you can salvage something by participating in a forum like this or supporting causes that you believe will stem the tide - for a while at least.

All is not lost, or so I hope.

I do have faith in this government. I am sure they realize which way the wind blows and have a plan. There is no way you can grab the narrative without getting to stay in power and winning the votes. From there it is a matter of winning the hearts - the minds will follow. Being in government allows one the ability to shut down foreign funding of BIF agencies. The best strategy, IMHO would be to use existing laws to their advantage, by limiting the power of forces inimical to the national agenda. I believe the GOI today has enough financial ability at the center (and in friendly States) to be able to oppose the financial clout of the opposition, especially if aid from abroad can be curtailed.

In the end, money does make the world go around. And I believe there is enough with the present regime to give it a good spin.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by crams » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:37 am

Kabir, I am not a historian, much less an expert on Rajput history, but those who have seen the film including dorknob actually say the movie praises Rajput valor. I thought initially SLB was showing some romance between an invading Islamic barbarian and Padhmavathi, and thats what p!ssed a lot of Rajputs off, but apparently there is no such scene. But the point yo make is rather deep. If SLB indeed minimized the barbarity and cruelty of the invader and portrayed it as some kind of secular mumbo jumbo, or even trivialized Pandmavathi's sacrifice, then that indeed is unfortunate. Rather than banning BS, I wish SLB himself would have eschewed his mischief. For e.g., do you think any reputed Hollywood director will take the artistic license and make a movie that distorts holocaust? Or any of America's founding fathers who are worshiped as demi Gods by most whites? Our deracinated pseudo secular eunuchs take this artistic freedom way too seriously when it comes to offending Hindus.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by crams » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:38 am

Kabir, I am not a historian, much less an expert on Rajput history, but those who have seen the film including dorknob actually say the movie praises Rajput valor. I thought initially SLB was showing some romance between an invading Islamic barbarian and Padhmavathi, and thats what p!ssed a lot of Rajputs off, but apparently there is no such scene. But the point yo make is rather deep. If SLB indeed minimized the barbarity and cruelty of the invader and portrayed it as some kind of secular mumbo jumbo, or even trivialized Pandmavathi's sacrifice, then that indeed is unfortunate. Rather than banning BS, I wish SLB himself would have eschewed his mischief. For e.g., do you think any reputed Hollywood director will take the artistic license and make a movie that distorts holocaust? Or any of America's founding fathers who are worshiped as demi Gods by most whites? Our deracinated pseudo secular eunuchs take this artistic freedom way too seriously when it comes to offending Hindus.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Hari Seldon » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:01 am

Image

Indonesia surprises me. Bhy pho such naive faith, hain jee?

Kabir
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Kabir » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:45 am

crams wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:38 am
Kabir, I am not a historian, much less an expert on Rajput history, but those who have seen the film including dorknob actually say the movie praises Rajput valor. I thought initially SLB was showing some romance between an invading Islamic barbarian and Padhmavathi, and thats what p!ssed a lot of Rajputs off, but apparently there is no such scene. But the point yo make is rather deep. If SLB indeed minimized the barbarity and cruelty of the invader and portrayed it as some kind of secular mumbo jumbo, or even trivialized Pandmavathi's sacrifice, then that indeed is unfortunate. Rather than banning BS, I wish SLB himself would have eschewed his mischief. For e.g., do you think any reputed Hollywood director will take the artistic license and make a movie that distorts holocaust? Or any of America's founding fathers who are worshiped as demi Gods by most whites? Our deracinated pseudo secular eunuchs take this artistic freedom way too seriously when it comes to offending Hindus.
Couple of things rams sir
1. SLB if innocent should have come out in the open long back and stated what his movie actually covers - the valour of Padmavati and not a romantic tale
2. As per some sources SLB has presented an edited version of the movie to the board where he has removed a song and some romantic sequences about Padmavati
3. If you look at the poster of the movie it shows Ranveer (khilji), why would you want to show Khilji as a lead in a movie on Padmavati's Life? Its like showing the image of Ravan in a movie titled Sita

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Deans » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:07 am

Hari Seldon wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:47 am
^ Thanks for posting that, RD.

My namo-namo to Prof. Julluri for articulating truth so well. And exposing Modi sarkar's inexplicable inaction on this crucial front.

Only.
I wanted to write an article which partly deals with the same issue that Prof Julluri raises. There is one aspect on which I have a slightly different point of view. I say this as a marketing & corporate professional who is required to understand consumers. As a Christian, perhaps my point of view will have less perceived bias.

A little bit of context, before I respond to Prof Julluri's point.
I believe that over the last decade there is a huge rebellion among the common man against 2 things that have been central to our society for
the last 50 odd years.

1. The sense of entitlement that the elite have - the `elite' being English speaking, Christian school educated and whose fathers were in the bureaucracy/ judiciary, politics, business etc. As an example of my institute - just 20 colleges out of 30,000 + in India, contribute to 90% of the intake in IIM Ahmedabad where I graduated from (in less merit based institutes it is worse). It led to a system where an elite few, linked to each other, exploited the many, irrespective of which party was in power. Thus NDA 1999, did not make a serious dent in the `system' of power and patronage in India. This order is being overturned now and our achievers come from far more diverse backgrounds. Hence the hatred a lot of the elite have for Modi ji. Fortunately this elite comprises a negligible no of people so Govt has decided, rightly IMO, that they are best ignored.

2. The sense of self-hate and `bashing our Indian culture', inculcated in our society, partly from a colonial era educational system and partly from the left-liberal lot.

There is a yearning - across income groups and education, for going back to our Indian culture. Some confuse this with Hindutva, which is incorrect, though I've no problem saying that if India is approx 80% Hindu, the cultural ethos of our country has to logically have Hindu roots and be
predominantly Hindu, just as the UK has a christian culture. One example of this `cultural renaissance' is in things like the popularity of Patanjali, more pride in national achievements etc. I believe there is a silent majority (incl. in the liberal Middle class) who feels hurt everytime there is blatant minority appeasement, SC bans crackers, Padmavati type movies are made etc. They will (I hope) express their opinion in GE 2019.
I believe though that more needs to be done in this area to ensure this `silent majority' voter base does not drift. I believe there does exist this
silent majority, while Prof Julluri fears they do not exist, as their voices are being drowned by the elite, waging a desperate battle to preserve the
status quo.

2014 GE was partly a rebellion against 1. GE 2019 will also be about 2.
I see as very profound, the observation that Modi ji is the first Indian (as in steeped in Indian values and culture) to rule India. He is also the only credible leader who can end the `rule of the elite' that we have hitherto had.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Chandragupta » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:16 am

I think as long as we have English medium education, we will always be slaves & white/anglo-saxon/christian value worshipping will continue. Indian elite are Islamists because of 2 reasons - vote bank & the influence of the western elite who are themselves pro-Islamists. Once you break the strangle hold of the western liberals on Indians, you break the second biggest reason for them to be Islamists.

Today we have people stepping over each other to be more angrez than the other, to be more un-Indian than the other. We need local languages based schooling with Indian literature & texts to bring up Indians, and not wannabe Brown Sahibs.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Deans » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:10 am

Chandragupta wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:16 am
I think as long as we have English medium education, we will always be slaves & white/anglo-saxon/christian value worshipping will continue. Indian elite are Islamists because of 2 reasons - vote bank & the influence of the western elite who are themselves pro-Islamists. Once you break the strangle hold of the western liberals on Indians, you break the second biggest reason for them to be Islamists.

Today we have people stepping over each other to be more angrez than the other, to be more un-Indian than the other. We need local languages based schooling with Indian literature & texts to bring up Indians, and not wannabe Brown Sahibs.
The problem is that English medium education (without Indian values) is seen as the only means for economic advancement.
If India's per capita income grew at 5% pa during UPA (6.7% GDP growth - population growth), it meant that the income of the top 1% (who earn 30% of our income and a staggering 60% of our wealth ) grew at 10% p.a, the next 9% of population (who own another third of income) at 4%. It meant the balance 90% had incomes growing at a mere 1% p.a The problem with the top 1% (see my earlier post on the revolt against the elite) is that there was no trickle down (taxes not paid and income held in the form of foreign assets, gold, overseas etc) and being in the 1% had to do more with birth than merit.
The game changers for the bottom 90% are Infrastructure: availability of power, gas in rural areas, rural roads & rural assets under MGNREGA. Toilets & access to the same productivity enhancers as the elite - i.e. financial inclusion & internet connectivity. These find almost no mention in the English media.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Chandragupta » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:43 am

The benefit of an English education is so overhyped because of the call center decade (2000-2010) which was made front page news by slaves in Indian media. Easy jobs with easy money for young folks who could party & live an 'american ishtyle' life complete with an murican accent. We never produced anything worthwhile in software being happy setting up body shops.

I wish a GoI with backbone will just end this english medium education system that is turning our kids into wannabe brown sahibs.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Karthik » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:07 pm

Rajat Sharma says there is nothing wrong with Padmavati and that people are protesting without even seeing the movie. If he says so, then I think people should wait until the movie is released.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by jamwal » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Those call centers paid good money only for fresher level. For someone newly out of school or college with no real skills, 15-20000 salary was big. But answering calls will only get you so much. After 3-4 years and more responsibilities, that job will still pay same at best. It was just a hype for 2-3 years and died down. Then MBA got popular, but probably met same fate.


English is not important. Technical education is. People wrongly think education means fluency in language. Real education is something which will teach a person to create something, not just talk to foreigners. This simple point is lost on most gungadins.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Gus » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:33 pm

the days of let's translate everything to local language and teach in local language is over long back.

tamils tried that more than anybody else, inventing words for carburetor, pippette, burette etc.

without a self-sustaining industry base that can put those people to jobs and also advance at par with the world in research in local language etc...this is all futile and will die over time.

and so it happened and it all died away in 80s and people started putting kids in english medium schools in 90s and these are the kids that caught the IT wave and pulled their families to middle and upper, breaking generations of meager living.

teach values at home, by example.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by sbajwa » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:40 pm

Kabir, I am not a historian, much less an expert on Rajput history, but those who have seen the film including dorknob actually say the movie praises Rajput valor. I thought initially SLB was showing some romance between an invading Islamic barbarian and Padhmavathi, and thats what p!ssed a lot of Rajputs off, but apparently there is no such scene. But the point yo make is rather deep.
Sanjay Leela Bhansali is a very very bad filmmaker and is not a historian at all. If someone like Chandrakant Dwidedi (who made Chanakaya TV serial) had made this movie nobody would have questioned him.

Movies like Mughal-e-azam and Jodha Akbar are depicting totally wrong history. Jodha was Akbar's daughter-in-law (wife of Jahangir)., read books by Jadunath Sarkar, Sita Ram Goel and K.S Lal., to understand what Thapar's and Bollywood has been doing from last 70 years!

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Supratik » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:49 pm

Vamsee Juluri's piece is vaccous bereft of any specifics. He could have spelled out what exactly Modi did or did not do e.g. move on RTE. A lot of Hindutva ideologues have tunnel vision, concerned about only what they think is correct and lack a bigger canvas. 1.3 billion poor Hindus is not going to get us anywhere. That should be the first thing to correct. Everything else is secondary. Juluri living a well off life in the west does not seem to understand the basics which Modi does. Disappointing article in good English.

Re: Padmavati. I think PIFs are doing a hara-kiri on this. Unless Bhansali tampered with history, every Hindu should know and learn the sacrifices our ancestors made to save the faith and civilization. Padmavati story must be told in correct format.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by manju » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:30 pm

Abhijit wrote
No need to justify science behind each and every practice, tradition we hindu have. No other religion does that. Its a trap. Dont fall for it.
Agree 100%... once in a while (very rarely) we may have to use this tactic.. but doing it for every thing is like seeking your enemies approval for things...

We must be saying "we do this .... so and so.. in Sanatana dharma becuase..."... give a the reason (whatever our parampara say.. but don't use the word scientific... science. In the modern context, Indians sub consciously read / understood science as contradicting religion or secular (pseudo).

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by crams » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:25 pm

Karthik wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:07 pm
Rajat Sharma says there is nothing wrong with Padmavati and that people are protesting without even seeing the movie. If he says so, then I think people should wait until the movie is released.
As Kabir and others have pointed out, there is more than meets the eye. Don't know who this Rajat Sharma is, but from knowledgeable folks, I do gather that SLB was up to some pseudo secular so called "progressive" mischief distorting history under the garb of artistic license and entertainment. Believe me, I believe in complete freedom of speech, but in India, taking on themes attacking Hindus is passe. That has to stop voluntarily, or else this ugliness will continue.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by crams » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:32 pm

Supratik, I too felt that Juluri was a bit off the cuff. But where I agree with him, and I have articulated many-a-times, is the defensive nature of BJP spokesman' tone despite the relentless assault they are under. This lack of aggressive response means the opponents set the tone. First accuse BJP as guilty until proven innocent. I mean why should BJP spokesman shy away from aggressively defending Hinduthva? Let the pseudo secular opposition and media frauds scream. But its always BJP and RSS on the defensive.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Hari Seldon » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:12 pm

Bluster masquerading as big-canvas vision comes riding roughshod over recently raised strawmen. (yet) Again.

Basic ass umption under-lying a lot of visionary noises is the same canard, repeated ad nauseum:

That the long-overdue anti-poverty programs of Modi sarkar (which practically all Hindutva ideologues of all stripes wholeheartedly support, BTW)
will somehow be crowded out by clarity on, confidence about, articulation of and a measured leveling of
the playing field between 'religions' as exists today in law, in edu, in property rights, in assets mgmt etc etc.

But yeah, so much easier to pass dismissive commentary on 'well-fed/comfy' nonresident Yindooze writing about Yindu identity issues in India just because, well, one can I guess.

Theek hai. Each to their own poison I guess. Jai ho. Peace.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Supratik » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:15 pm

I don't think shouting on TV channels is particularly helpful to the BJP. Except for optics they are doing reasonably well within the constraints of multi party democracy. Islamist violence is 90% down outside Kashmir. Communist violence is down except in Kerala. I only wish they were more aggressive in Kerala where people are dying. You have to balance core and non-core issues and deliver over a period of 10-15 years provided opportunity arises. Juluri maybe a great ideologue but has no practical experience of politics and governance. Even his fight over California text books took 20 years for change from "Aryan" to "Vedic" and with several issues still pending. That is how long peaceful changes take place. If you are expecting a revolution in 6 months you are badly mistaken. So you have to judge them over a period of time. Criticize only if there is no progress on core issues over say 10-15 years of overriding majority. Even then you have to keep the courts in mind as it is still full of people from Nehruvian era. That is how hard it is.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Chandragupta » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:12 pm

Gus wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:33 pm
the days of let's translate everything to local language and teach in local language is over long back.

tamils tried that more than anybody else, inventing words for carburetor, pippette, burette etc.

without a self-sustaining industry base that can put those people to jobs and also advance at par with the world in research in local language etc...this is all futile and will die over time.

and so it happened and it all died away in 80s and people started putting kids in english medium schools in 90s and these are the kids that caught the IT wave and pulled their families to middle and upper, breaking generations of meager living.

teach values at home, by example.
Disagree. Just one state trying to do everything in local language won't cut it, it has to be a national effort with several link languages. If you continue to teach English to kids in school, it will always be their de-facto mother tongue. English literature will always be put on a pedestal and with it, come all sort of other foreign things.

We need to put in some effort in trying to develop an ecosystem that supports Indian languages and then go for it full steam.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Gus » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:48 pm

lol..there are even more poisonous stuff in tamil literature written by our comrades and rationalists.

you are welcome to keep talking about stuff like "national effort to local language education"...it is akin to running full speed into a wall. and telling me of health benefits of running is quite pointless.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Trilobite » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:55 pm

What % Indians can actually speak (fluently and grammatically correct) english? 4% ? 5% ? Does anyway have any survey data?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Yagnasri » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:59 am

It is about 5% I think.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by SSundar » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:06 am

Targeting English education is convenient for most people but the problem does not lie there. The world out there has been conquered by Indians with an English education but brought up with a Dharmic ethos. We have to be honest and admit to ourselves that we may not have a Sundar Pichai or Satya Nadella without being a nation that made it's children fluent in English.

The real problem is the fact that English schools in India are taking to punishing students who speak in Indian students or wear Hindu marks such as Bindi, etc. We should never confuse language with culture. Such practices of punishing students for just being Indian must be banned and outlawed.

At the same time, we have to get creative about mandating and incentivizing Indian language education. Most Indian language education is focused on literature and not on modern conversation and business. It also becomes fairly tedious to get high marks in language papers which induces students to move onto languages like French to get marks more easily. A better system might mandate at least one Indian language each academic year and provide options such as basic, business, scientific and literature to learn these languages. This way, we can find science and math track students learning Hindi or Tamil through the scientific track rather than having to sift through poetry and literature. This will also serve to enrich our languages since book authors will be hard-pressed to translate every scientific term into local languages.

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