Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

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sbajwa
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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by sbajwa » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:20 pm

Watch this interesting debate on Guru Nanak Dev ji in an Indian TV.
Relations between Sikhs and Hindus are fine in India and among the professional/educated crowd in West.


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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by Vikas » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:04 pm

I always pull leg of my close Sikh friend that first 9 Sikh Gurus were actually Hindus. Till the day Khalsa was established, There was no such thing as Sikh Panth and everyone was a Hindu Including Guru Gobind Singh.

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by sbajwa » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:32 pm

Sikhi was and is a reform movement

Sikh in Sanskrit means "Student"
Guru in Sanskrit means "Teacher"

So as a Sikh you are always learning and reforming yourself.

Back in 1500s after occupation by Adharmic forces Guru Nanak dev ji and subsequent Gurus reformed based on Guru Nanak's principles.

1. Guru Nanak Dev was against upper-lower castes so he told people who wanted to visit him first sit down together, cook and eat food and then visit him. He only met with like minded people (Sangat) for 2 hours in the evening., while rest of the day he worked hard in fields or traveled around the world. How many of Babas do this today?

Check Guru Nanak's shabad which his companion Bala narrated when they visited Mecca as his other companion named Mardana (was a muslim) wanted to do Haj but Guru Nanak and Bala were forbade to enter Mecca as they sat outside and sung.



2. Guru Angad Dev actually invented Gurmukhi script (From landey) and he wrote down whatever Guru Nanak Dev ji say. He was not related to Guru Nanak Dev ji at all.

3. Guru Amardas was a reformer for women rights., he also told people to sit in lines (Pangat) which meant discipline. He appointed many women as leader of evening prayers (Gurbani) of many villages all over India. He was not related to Guru Nanak Dev ji. One day his wife asked to find a groom for their daughter and then she saw a handsome hawker outside their house selling gram. He told Guru Amardas ji that groom must be as handsome as that hawker. Guru Amardas ji asked that hawker if he can marry his daughter. He agreed and later became the fourth Guru., Guru Ramdas ji.

4. From this point on wards all Sikh gurus were from this line (Sodhi). Guru Ramdas created many cities and he was sort of environmentalist (created water bodies and helped villagers with crops, etc)

5. Guru Arjan Dev ji was the great compiler, great musician, great builder, great poet and the first Sikh Guru martyr. He compiled the bani of all previous Gurus into one book., he got created Golden Temple and installed Guru Granth sahib calling it "Adi Granth". He was arrested by Mughal emperor Jehangir on advice of the Naqshbandi sufi of Sirhind (Sheikh Ahmed Sirhindi). He refused to convert to Islam. So they tried to show him the Islamic hell as depicted. in June, first day no water, second day hot sand was poured on his body, third day his body was pierced by hot rods, fourth day he was made to sit on a hot plate, fifth day he was made to sit on a hot plate and hot sand was poured on him., Sixth day when he was faint they threw his body in River Ravi. At that point now there is a Gurudwara Dera Sahib right outside the fort of Lahore.
Guru Arjan dev's elder brother Prithi Chand wanted to became Guru but he could not. So there was a family feud started here. He conspired with Mughals many times. Guru Arjan Dev ji had appointed his Son Hargobind as the sixth Guru.

6. Guru Hargobind was the first Sikh Guru warrior., he created first Sikh army of 800 soldiers. He fought pitched battles many times with mughals as well as his Uncle Prithvi Chand. He was arrested by Jehangir and imprisoned at fort of Gwalior where other various Hindu rajas from all over India were arrested and housed. Jehangir became Sick and someone suggested him to release Guru. Guru refused to leave unless all of the other Hindu Rajas are not released. Jehangir allowed them to release.

7. Seventh Guru Guru Har Rai was son of sixth Guru. He lost control of Golden temple to his uncles. At this time Sikhs use to visit golden temple and it had became a big business. He guided Sikhs aptly., he started preaching in Himachal, Haryana, UP and most north India., and also kept armies. He appointed his 6 years old Son Har krishen as the next Guru.

8. 8th Guru Guru Har Krishen visited Delhi on invitation of Mughal king Aurungzeb (6th year of Aurungzeb's being emperor). Guru Har Krishen got affected by Smallpox in Delhi and passed away saying that the next Guru is at Baba Bakala in Punjab.

9. Now all the Sodhi's lineage of Guru Hargobind started declaring themselves as "Guru" but Guru Hargobind's youngest son named Teg Bahadur had always lived at Baba Bakala and thus Sikhs made him the 9th Guru. Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur was a saint as well as soldier. He was named Tegh Bahadur because of his sword skills by his father. He was not allowed to visit Golden Temple as the other lineage of the Sodhis occupied it after sixth guru had passed away. Golden Temple was becoming a big business. The other lineage had installed idols of various devi/devtas inside Golden Temple. Lower caste people were not allowed inside Golden Temple people. They were told to stand outside for langar and/or prasad. So Kashmiri Brahmans actually tried various babas and gurus before coming over to Guru Tegh Bahadur. Guru Tegh Bahadur along with Bhai Mati Dass, Bhai Sati Dass and Bhai Dyal Dass gave away their lives without converting at Delhi. There is a Gurudwara Sis Ganj at Chandani Chowk which used to be Mughal Kotwali till 1760s.

10. Guru Gobind Singh was a warrior, poet, realist and political motivator of the 1600s. He created Khalsa which basically means to fight for your rights and to not to get converted by fear. His elder sons died fighting mughals, his youngest sons (less than 10 years old) were bricked alive and beheaded. He himself was wounded by a Pathan and later passed away from the complications of this wound. He appointed Sri Guru Granth Sahib as the next Guru. He told his people that the Khalsa should make a Panchayat and elect its leader every so often for the time to come. He told them to evolve as time passes.

11. Sikhs did evolve using Guru Gobind Singh's advice till Ranjit Singh (1849) but then there was a huge decline until 1910. SGPC was created and which forced the Mahants (Nankana Sahib was occupied by the descendants of Guru Nanak, Golden Temple by descendants of Guru Hargobind. SGPC took control of the Gurudwaras and created Sikh constitution. Many reforms were done, Khalsa colleges were created, etc.

12. 1947 happened and Jatt Sikhs took over SGPC making Sikhi an exclusive Punjabi religion. Which Guru Gobind Singh wanted for all of India.

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by jamwal » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:33 am

Thank you Bajwa sahab. This is good information.

I am actually surprised by how much vitriol young Sikhs have against Hinduism and even against India. I was a member of two Whatsapp groups with a lot of sikhs from my school days. Almost every single sikh member was more sympathetic to khalistanis and muslims than to Hindus. Some even made phone calls (atleast 1 from overseas) to make personal threats when I called them out on their ignorance and white lies on above points.
These sikhs were mostly from near border areas from Jammu city with a few from other parts of state and majority moderately to deeply Hinduphobic. Sikhs in Kashmir used to walk around in muslim rallies shouting "Muslim Sikh Bhai Bhai. Ye Hindu koum kanha se aai".


They are pretty nice face to face if they are not in groups or if you say yes to all of their retarded version of history. Online when they have screen keyboard to hide behind, they are much worse.

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by kittoo » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:49 am

jamwal wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:33 am
Thank you Bajwa sahab. This is good information.

I am actually surprised by how much vitriol young Sikhs have against Hinduism and even against India. I was a member of two Whatsapp groups with a lot of sikhs from my school days. Almost every single sikh member was more sympathetic to khalistanis and muslims than to Hindus. Some even made phone calls (atleast 1 from overseas) to make personal threats when I called them out on their ignorance and white lies on above points.
These sikhs were mostly from near border areas from Jammu city with a few from other parts of state and majority moderately to deeply Hinduphobic. Sikhs in Kashmir used to walk around in muslim rallies shouting "Muslim Sikh Bhai Bhai. Ye Hindu koum kanha se aai".


They are pretty nice face to face if they are not in groups or if you say yes to all of their retarded version of history. Online when they have screen keyboard to hide behind, they are much worse.
I dont doubt the veracity of it, I am just flabbergasted by it. Have the Sikhs forgotten 1947 Jammu riots (let alone the partition and riots in Punjab etc. or Mughals) so completely, have they so completely forgotten the shared culture and heritage they have with Hindus that they actively hate them and want to be in bed with Muslims? Are they so blind that they cant see the difference between how Sikhs live in Pakistan vs how Sikhs live and prosper in India? To not like Hindus I can understand to some extent (not justifying, just can see how mental gymnastics can lead to this) but to actively be with Muslims against Hindus? I just cant understand it!

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by dsreedhar » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:22 pm

Thank you Bajwa ji. This is good info on birth and evolution of Sikhism in short. This should be made a sticky for easy reference.
There is only Paki brainwashed Khalistani side of story. No one to tell/listen the hindus side of story and so the lies keep living and perpetuating.

I think like the Ramayana and Mahabharatha TV serials there should be one on Sikhism. This should have the biggest impact in reaching masses in understanding and removing any misconceptions.

https://www.hafsite.org/hindu-americans ... ign=buffer

A success in California in correcting some of the lies and portraying hinduism more fairly and depict its world contributions. There was resistance to this by some other groups but won end of the day. This should have a positive impact.

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by Kabir » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:13 pm

sbajwa wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:51 pm
1. Sikhism doesnt have caste system like hinduism and treats all humans equal and hence superior to hinduism or sanatan dharma
Then why do the Sikhs have Jats, Khatris, Ramgarhia and Ramdasia castes and they don't marry among each other?
Did you tell them that Hinduism also does not have a caste system anymore., neither Sati and widows can be remarried.

2. Men and women have equal rights in Sikhsim
Then why does Sikhs have least girls to boys ratio among all communities of India? Sikh household males are indeed chauvinistic just listen
to the songs and watch movies.

3. There is women empowerment.
There was women empowerment at the times of the Sikh Gurus., not anymore.

4. We dont worship idols (completely ignore nirakar aspect of hinduism, never even a mention of it as if it is a Sikh/islamic invention)
Sikhs do worship Sri Guru Granth sahib as an Idol. I have seen mindless chanting of SGGS continuously without understanding it.
All Sikh gurus insist that mindless reading of the book (like Akhand Path) is wastage of the time and they must understand it and contemplate on the Gurbani.

5. Hindus dont empathise for 1984 pogrom (Even if most do they are not acknowledged).
That is not true! Even if 3000 Sikhs were murdered by Congoons., hundreds of thousands were saved by Hindus.

6. We don't waste milk etc in temples but feed the poor and do social work via Gurudwaras etc.
That might be true for some places and some Sikh organizations but so are many RSS and Hindu organizations doing the same.
Bajwa ji we need more people like you with a balanced view. Unless their own drawbacks are understood a community can never survive. As you said Sikhi is an evolution and a learning and there is hope if people gradually rise above the politicization of Sikhism

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by Kabir » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:44 pm

dsreedhar wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:22 pm
I think like the Ramayana and Mahabharatha TV serials there should be one on Sikhism. This should have the biggest impact in reaching masses in understanding and removing any misconceptions.
+10
That is a great suggestion indeed. Very little is known in the mainstream about origins and core philosophy of Sikhism.

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by sbajwa » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:15 pm

I am actually surprised by how much vitriol young Sikhs have against Hinduism and even against India. I was a member of two Whatsapp groups with a lot of sikhs from my school days. Almost every single sikh member was more sympathetic to khalistanis and muslims than to Hindus. Some even made phone calls (atleast 1 from overseas) to make personal threats when I called them out on their ignorance and white lies on above points.
These sikhs were mostly from near border areas from Jammu city with a few from other parts of state and majority moderately to deeply Hinduphobic. Sikhs in Kashmir used to walk around in muslim rallies shouting "Muslim Sikh Bhai Bhai. Ye Hindu koum kanha se aai".
Ignore them! They are Manmukh! aka on the side of Adharama!
Gurmukhs are always on the side of Dharma (even if they do not have turbans or hair that is all symbols). This is 2017 in this time and age when I see 300 lbs fat khalsa's telling you that hair is more important than exercise/food habits/etc., I tell them on their face that they are against their own Guru.

All Sikh Gurus wanted their Sikhs to be fit and soldiers like along with good morals and helping the needy. The Khalsa's that I see today are not like Them.

Jassa Singh Ahluwalia raided Abdali's returning caravan and rescued many "Bandis" aka "Slaves" aka "Hindu women" He was named Bandi Chhor., so did Nawab Kapur Singh .

The today's Sikhs who are allied with Muslims have forgotten their history!

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by sbajwa » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:50 pm

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 97022.html

A Facebook post by a gangster, involved in the killing of a Hindu leader in Amritsar, admitting to his crime, has left Punjab Police embarrassed.

Saraj Sandhu, who is being chased by the state police, not only admitted to killing Hindu Sangharsh Sena leader Vipan Sharma, but even suggested that the “killing should not be linked to religion”.

(Follow The Tribune on Facebook; and Twitter @thetribunechd)

Police sources said on Monday that the social media post of Sandhu, who has been on the run since the killing on October 30, along with three other accused, was being investigated.

“We are verifying whether the gangster has uploaded the post or someone else has done it for him. He must be in touch with some people,” the police source said.

In his post, Sandhu has justified Sharma’s killing. He claimed it was carried out to seek revenge. Sharma was involved in a conspiracy to kill Sandhu’s friend’s father.

Punjab Police had last week arrested Sukhraj Kaur, Sandhu’s mother, from her home in Sultanwind near Amritsar on charges of harbouring her son and other criminals.

Sandhu was clearly seen pumping seven bullets into Sharma in a CCTV footage. Another accomplice of Sandhu, who also fired at Sharma, had his face covered.

Sharma was killed in broad daylight on October 30. Since both killers were wearing turbans and bearded, the police were working on the angle of Sharma being targeted by radicals.

Sharma was the district president of Hindu Sangharsh Sena in Amritsar. He was shot dead in the Bharat Nagar area near Batala Road.

At least four assailants were involved in the attack, the police said later.

The state Police last week busted a terror module operating in Punjab which was being linked to the killing of Hindu leaders in the state.

Five members of the module have also been arrested and weapons recovered from them.

Further investigations were on and more arrests were expected. IANS

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by Sunny » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:55 pm

What do people make of the Jaggi Singh Johal case?

What the police say about him:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/m.hindusta ... I_amp.html

What his supporters say:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.indepe ... html%3famp

It’s causing quite a stir in the UK among the Sikh population. If/when it’s proven that he was indeed linked to the these killings then I think a lot of people will end up with egg on their face. I find it hard to believe the cops would arrest a foreigner like this without being sure their case was strong.

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by lisa » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:23 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMzcpBv2NZQ

DISRESPECT OF RUMALA SAHIB in Canada

Was shown this this morning. I have no comment, just puzzlement for the wastage and disrespect. Not sure what folk in India will think.

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by jamwal » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:26 am

Even these pieces of clothes are sacred now ?

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by lisa » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:46 am

Who said anything about sacred?

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by jamwal » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:23 pm

What is this video then ?

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by lisa » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:06 pm

If you can't see, I can't help. Have a great day,

Lisa

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by sbajwa » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:55 pm

by Sunny
It’s causing quite a stir in the UK among the Sikh population. If/when it’s proven that he was indeed linked to the these killings then I think a lot of people will end up with egg on their face. I find it hard to believe the cops would arrest a foreigner like this without being sure their case was strong.
They are fake sikhs who are under influence of ISI., Tell them to convert to Islam and fight face to face openly., instead of these cowardly attacks on innocents.

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by sbajwa » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:58 pm

by Lisa
DISRESPECT OF RUMALA SAHIB in Canada

Was shown this this morning. I have no comment, just puzzlement for the wastage and disrespect. Not sure what folk in India will think.
What is a Rumala Sahib? This is stupidity as a piece of cloth is not SACRED as per Guru Granth Sahib ji!! Read SGGS and contemplate (Vichaar) on it.

This sort of behavior is 100% totally against the teachings of Sikh Gurus. The Bani written is Sacred while the paper, ink and bindings are not! You must read the Gurbani and work on it. Just bowing down to Paper, Ink and Bindings is against Sikhism!

It is like you are daily bowing down to Gita and doing Adharam (murder, cheating, lying, etc) everyday.

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by Kabir » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:30 pm

sbajwa wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:58 pm
by Lisa
DISRESPECT OF RUMALA SAHIB in Canada

Was shown this this morning. I have no comment, just puzzlement for the wastage and disrespect. Not sure what folk in India will think.
What is a Rumala Sahib? This is stupidity as a piece of cloth is not SACRED as per Guru Granth Sahib ji!! Read SGGS and contemplate (Vichaar) on it.

This sort of behavior is 100% totally against the teachings of Sikh Gurus. The Bani written is Sacred while the paper, ink and bindings are not! You must read the Gurbani and work on it. Just bowing down to Paper, Ink and Bindings is against Sikhism!

It is like you are daily bowing down to Gita and doing Adharam (murder, cheating, lying, etc) everyday.
Very well said Bajwa ji. Your comments are a constant reminder about the true philosophy of Sikhism for non-Sikhs like us

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by Sunny » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:20 pm

AC Gondane, the Indian High Commissioner to Australia, was stopped from entering a gurdwara to pay his respects in Melbourne by pro-Khalistani protesters.
https://www.thequint.com/news/india/ind ... a-gurdwara

LOS ANGELES, USA—On November 10, an all-day seminar claiming to honor Guru Gobind Singh at Loyola Marymount University was interrupted at the outset when a Singh raised his voice in protest as the event organizers attempted to place a turban on Indian Consul General Ambassador Venkatesan Ashok.
https://www.sikh24.com/2017/11/12/calif ... hSJjFVl_rc

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by SRoy » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:46 pm

Sikhism claims to have incorporated elements from Vedic Hinduism and Islam.
The Islamic gene is kicking in it seems.

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by sbajwa » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:55 pm

Guru Nanak Says that he is neither Hindu nor Muslim.

The people who claim "Islamic incorporation" are delusional., they need to read and understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib!
Sri Guru Granth sahib is all about praise and love of One Omkar (creator that has no gender, no face, no form, does not born or die, has no fear, etc)

The Khalistanis are all 100% influenced by money from ISI., and I think we should not even discuss them at all. Why give them space? Leave them alone!

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by dsreedhar » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:13 pm

We can blame Paki, ISI, but are there any initiatives from sikhs/hindus/Indian govt to reach out and work with Khalistanis abroad? Also there should be govt level talks to check the spread of this hatred. Ignoring may not be an option anymore.

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by SRoy » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:16 pm

Khalistanis have poisoned the future of Sikhism. I am astonished to see the amount to hatred and vitriol younger Sikhs have against us Hindus.
With their dwindling numbers and with Sikh girls playing up to Jihadis, they are heading towards self inflicted extinction.

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Re: Hindu Sikh Relations in India and Abroad

Post by sbajwa » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:04 pm

Sroy you are generalizing way too much!

90% of the Sikhs live in India and do not support Khalistan anywhere in India.
Few 100,000s that are being sponsored by ISI live in USA, Canada, England and can be just ignored.

Check here the video of Sikhs buying land in Tamilnadu


Sikh farmers behind Italian Cheese



Sikh and Hindu farmers in Georgia (East Europe)


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