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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:07 am
by JohnTitor
srikumar wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:02 am
i know sponsored content is ads.

It is bizarre for a legitimate news organization to pay money to another news organization to sell their news (yes I know these are sellout news organizations yada yada).
Like any advertisement, the purpose is to communicate a message.

Who to, is a matter of speculation. It may be NRIs trying to influence them (to convert?), it could be to their sponsors (CIA, Vatican etc) .. or simply a way to gloat.

But if you paid for conversions, you'd like to know if your money is well spent.

The simpler explanation would be that the Indian papers want to bring in English readers, and those that visit the American papers are Lutyens/conversion types and these would appeal to them and bring them to the Hindu.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:09 am
by crams
Guys, did you see the debate that Dorkie did in the aftermath of N.Ram's Rafale hit job?

As usual, it was a high-decibel shouting match, but at least in the beginning, he had Raksha mantri Nirmala SeetharamanJi on. Which was good. He also had Rafale chief negotiator Sinha on as also Abhijit Iyer Mitra who added some substance.

However, what I found intriguing was Dorkie sucking up to N.Ram while hitting out at Pappu for spreading lies based on N.Ram's fake news report. I mean it was rather disingenuous for Dorkie to praise N.Ram who was peddling the same lies that he was castigating Pappu for. Even more so considering that I have seen N.Ram contemptuously dismissing Dorkie's republic TV as a 'North Korean' channel (as all Lutyen media do, and pretty rich considering that they are the voice of the dynasty).

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:30 am
by hanumadu
Modi just addressed a rally in Guntur which is TDP Central. Don't have crowd pictures to see the turn out.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:40 am
by Vikas
Is it only me or others too find RG very irritating in TV. Whatever the political views of his party, he as a person comes across jarring and mendacious. There is something not likeable about him somehow.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:13 am
by Supratik
Cong-CPIM may ally in WB but I think it is too late for both of them.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:18 pm
by syam
arshyam wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:41 am
Time to block twitter till they comply, and GoI should publicly issue a directive to not use Twitter for updates till this is resolved. Is there a desi equivalent app we can move to in the meantime? A few ten million accounts going dormant and switching over would put their chaddis in a serious twist.
I am afraid there is no desi alternative to Twitter. Indian RW used Twitter/Facebook as an alternative to MSM back in 2014. Still using it. If GoI blocks twitter, it will be win-win situation for Congress. I don't trust Arnab. All other channels are same. Swarajya/Opindia are more like reaction type news portals.

TBH this is one of the issues I have with BJP. They focus too much on country ignoring their followers. :))

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:58 pm
by Primus
suryag wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:28 am
Please do your bit for funding the family of Sri Ramalingam
https://milaap.org/fundraisers/sri-rama ... _id=897463
Done. Was this the gentleman killed in TN by EJs? What a sad story. Interesting organization, Milaap. Does anybody know if they are Dharmic or 'secular'? The way the story is worded does not give the reader or donor any idea what the 'community' that killed him was. It is a bit like the news of muslims running riot on Friday afternoons used to be reported as 'people of a certain community'. The word Muslim was never mentioned.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:58 pm
by chetak
hanumadu wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:30 am
Modi just addressed a rally in Guntur which is TDP Central. Don't have crowd pictures to see the turn out.

https://www.facebook.com/narendramodi/v ... 391417113/

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:18 pm
by chetak
why do we need these colonial minded aholes to advise India??

didn't they already have a good go at us and messed up things completely?? besides looting, pillaging, besides economically and culturally raping us??

are these not the very kind of b@$t@^&$ who were responsible for leaving us denuded and stripped of wealth and infrastructure??
Kanchan Gupta Verified account @KanchanGupta
Feb 7

I'm told when Thomas Piketty met top brass of Modi Sarkar, he kept pushing two points: Indians are under-taxed and should be taxed close to 60-65%; and, prosperity is bad but poverty redistribution is good.
(I'm quoting a Minister whom Piketty met.)

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:18 pm
by crams
The mischievous strategy of the dynasty and their N.Ram type slavish cabals is obvious. They are going to persist with Rafale because they believe that throwing as much mud clouded in doubt is bound to undercut ModiJi's image on corruption. I don't think Pappu is lobbying for any other US or other defense firm as Dorkie was speculating and Nirmala Seetharaman seemed to concur.

I have come to the root of N.Ram's latest fake news. What seems to have happened is that French govt was not willing to give that bank type financial guarantee, but was willing to give that comfort letter. Naturally, that message was passed on to PMO and they legitimately got involved to probably to help finalize the comfort letter. Perfectly legitimate exercise, and what is more, praiseworthy of ModiJi for fast tracking the issue.

Now, by selectively, cropping the contents of that exchange between this moron Sharma and MoD, the cabal wanted to show there was some hanky panky. I only expect Rafae to be a central Congoon plank as elections approach with these kinds of fake campaigns.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:31 am
by suryag
Primus garu, thanks sir, yes it is the same incident.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:07 am
by JohnTitor
Suryag, I've made a contribution as well. I hope they are taken care of.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:50 am
by Muns
Triank wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:07 am
jingo-gan, need some help:

here's a msg a friend got on his fb page by sm1:

"hi, I am ** from Hyderabad,India. I am going through a very tough time. We are a brahmin family.. My only child is 22 years just completed IIT. Now he is been mesmerized so much about Christianity and says he is a Christian. I am going through hell at home. I approched counselors and many. Nothing is effecting him. What to do to get him back to Hinduthism and take up his responsibility in his birth religion"

"Thank you for your reply.. He is from IIT Roorkee..we are started counselling session from Swami Paripurnanada's Sishya..and also trying max..But he is in complete memorization.. He has gone very deep in just 4 months. Please help us. How to get him back"

"he has become very stubborn.. He things Christianity is true.. Jesus is the true God.. what to do.?? Day by day I am looking hopes.. He is my only child . I can't even imagine he being like that...can any one help.. us.. He needs a strong and knowledgeable person."

i have contacted Shiva-Shakti org. next i will be writing to kalavai venkat. pls pour in your suggestions on how this could be tackled.

TIA!

P.S. - @muns saar, sorry i forgot to respond to your reply earlier. now i cant find it. could you pls link me to it?
Triank,

I think unfortunately this is going to be the trend of the future. Sorry to be bringing this up little later but I have been thinking what is the best way to really handle this coming up in the future. I have previously written how Christians take up national calamities as well as using crises in the person's life to bring about religious change. Done throughout history, where Christians have always faked persecution to broadcast a sense of sympathy to their cause. It's the same thing that goes on even today in India. I wouldn't be surprised if people convert due to personal difficulty and the calamity that has happened in their lives and automatically like praying vultures, Jesus appears to save the day.
It's the biggest crock you'll ever learn in history.

As Suryag says before, Jesus was actually declared God by a council of the first bishops that convened at the Council of Nicaea. Before then he was just another radical Jewish Rabbi.
Constantine, apparently converted because he saw a meteor in the sky and took it to mean a sign from Christ. Upon becoming Emperor simply through a matter of cutting off funding to the temples of the Roman temples died. It was pure economics.
That and some traveling educated and converted Jew called Paul who went on an extremely aggressive conversion campaign decades after Christ died. It is really because of Paul that Christianity had spread the way it has.

How should we I feel take this up? Expose the Christians for the praying vultures and the fake self persecution story that they constantly hold. Indeed if suffering is the greater key, then nobody has suffered more than the Hindus to what is known as genocidal Holocaust at the hands of these Abrahamics.

Another thought is to really go after in the more educated light, the conversion of non-Hindus themselves. Based on my experience I have found that spreading the word of intellectual jnana yoga( perhaps a simplified form of advaita) among the non-Hindus may possibly be the best course for the future. If it really is the numbers game then we need an organization where we can actively engage by creating a simple form of self realization and spreading this gyan among the non-Hindu masses. We somehow need to actively work harder on not only ghar wapsi but I feel conversion as well.

Triank, what reply were you asking about?

Muns

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:32 am
by Muns
His family definitely needs our support and have done so. Unfortunate about Sri Ramalingam sacrifice above, we shall take up his cause on India Aware as well and spread this news on all of our media accounts.
May his death, serve to embolden others to take up the same cause as well.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:36 am
by SSundar
crams wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:18 pm
I don't think Pappu is lobbying for any other US or other defense firm as Dorkie was speculating and Nirmala Seetharaman seemed to concur.
Nirmala Seetharaman as well as Jaitley have hinted in parliament to RaGa's face that he is doing this at the behest of EADS (Eurofighter). Christian Michel was also the agent for EADS. So, Dorkie was way off.

US FCPA Law deters or at least complicates the possibility of winning deals through obvious kickbacks. EADS, who is also the parent company of Airbus, has always been known to swing deals in India through shady money. Remember even the first Airbus A320 deal during Rajiv Gandhi's time was seriously suspected of involving kickbacks.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:45 am
by Sachin
PM attacks Cong on defence deals, silent on Rafale . Congress seems to be real desperate on the Rafale issue and using MSM indiscrimanately. The only counter I feel is for BJP's door-to-door campaign machinery. Like LS 2014 there should be campaign vans which goes to every nook & corner.
crams wrote:I think ModiJi should take his gloves off and go after Rafale fake news peddlers like N. Ram, Ajai Shukla etc. Of course ecosystem will scream fascism, vendetta etc, but that needs to be weathered.
It should be BJP party machinery which should be more proactive here. There would be 1000s of BJP sympathisers who are not full time party workers, and it is their help which is required here. Help them to file cases against "Chinese Hindu" etc. When neutral people file petitions political vandetta cry would be come meaningless. See how NGOs use "non-political citizens" to further their agenda.

Karnataka politics.
Cong mounts pressure on BSY, asks BJP chief to resign . Any way it is always money bag politics in Karnataka, but looks like BSY is really desparate to be the CM of the state. Some his has been always unlucky on this part.

80k cops plan strike as HDK goes back on hike promise. This seems to be second time in last 5 years the Karnataka Policemen threatened of strikes/mass sick reporting etc. Even when Siddu was the CM, he had tricked the police force. The "mass sick report" plan was really on, and superior police officers have to send out wireless messages, and even visit police stations personally asking the men NOT to be absent from work. Karnataka Police seems to have the lowest pay scale in the southern states.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:00 am
by Haldiram
SSundar wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:36 am
crams wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:18 pm
I don't think Pappu is lobbying for any other US or other defense firm as Dorkie was speculating and Nirmala Seetharaman seemed to concur.
Nirmala Seetharaman as well as Jaitley have hinted in parliament to RaGa's face that he is doing this at the behest of EADS (Eurofighter). Christian Michel was also the agent for EADS. So, Dorkie was way off.

US FCPA Law deters or at least complicates the possibility of winning deals through obvious kickbacks. EADS, who is also the parent company of Airbus, has always been known to swing deals in India through shady money. Remember even the first Airbus A320 deal during Rajiv Gandhi's time was seriously suspected of involving kickbacks.
This does not sound credible. Of the two planes shortlisted among the half dozen competitors, Eurofighter was one of them. So if they wanted Eurofighter they could have chosen it back then itself. In fact the "defense expert" @Iyervval had written a long article criticizing the UPA govt. for picking Rafale over Eurofighter. Though later he changed his opinion after Modi decided to buy 36 Rafale.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:15 am
by SSundar
Haldiram wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:00 am
SSundar wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:36 am
crams wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:18 pm
I don't think Pappu is lobbying for any other US or other defense firm as Dorkie was speculating and Nirmala Seetharaman seemed to concur.
This does not sound credible. Of the two planes shortlisted among the half dozen competitors, Eurofighter was one of them. So if they wanted Eurofighter they could have chosen it back then itself. In fact the "defense expert" @Iyervval had written a long article criticizing the UPA govt. for picking Rafale over Eurofighter. Though later he changed his opinion after Modi decided to buy 36 Rafale.
EADS simply lost the pricing battle. IAF initially prevailed over the corrupt UPA elements. If you believe what BJP is saying, the famiglia just basically stalled the deal because IAF chose the company that did not pay the famiglia. Remember EADS later approached the govt with a lower bid but IAF rejected on the basis that such rebids are not allowed. The EADS theory is a lot more credible than a Boeing or Lockheed theory.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:43 am
by Vikas
Folks on the ground in UP.

How much Impact PGV will have outside the almost non-existent Congress ecosystem in UP during GE'19. Some of the prodigam congress who still are dynasty supporters will surely return but beyond that 8-10% cut off, do you see a major realignment of voters in UP. Media keeps talking about Brahmin, Dalit and Muslim voters again gravitating towards congress but that social engineering contract was of 90's and earlier. Others had not tasted power.

Also this resemblance to Indira - Is this really going to cut except for get few more for rallies. How many voters actually remember Indira and its not like during her Raj, Milk and Honey was flowing in UP. Has anyone heard her speaking in a rally ?

Bottom line, Assuming that BJP will shed some seats in UP, what is the kind of impact we should expect in UP and how it will rattle SP-BSP managers. Would SP-BSP secretly support congress and block BJP or would they want congress to be wiped out of UP as it gives them more leverage.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:43 am
by JohnTitor
Triank wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:07 am
jingo-gan, need some help:

here's a msg a friend got on his fb page by sm1:

"hi, I am ** from Hyderabad,India. I am going through a very tough time. We are a brahmin family.. My only child is 22 years just completed IIT. Now he is been mesmerized so much about Christianity and says he is a Christian. I am going through hell at home. I approched counselors and many. Nothing is effecting him. What to do to get him back to Hinduthism and take up his responsibility in his birth religion"

"Thank you for your reply.. He is from IIT Roorkee..we are started counselling session from Swami Paripurnanada's Sishya..and also trying max..But he is in complete memorization.. He has gone very deep in just 4 months. Please help us. How to get him back"

"he has become very stubborn.. He things Christianity is true.. Jesus is the true God.. what to do.?? Day by day I am looking hopes.. He is my only child . I can't even imagine he being like that...can any one help.. us.. He needs a strong and knowledgeable person."

i have contacted Shiva-Shakti org. next i will be writing to kalavai venkat. pls pour in your suggestions on how this could be tackled.

TIA!

P.S. - @muns saar, sorry i forgot to respond to your reply earlier. now i cant find it. could you pls link me to it?
I will sound harsh, but it is the truth.

Satya can be hita or Priya, this is hita. So bear with me.

The kid is a goner. His parents can't really do much other than pray and perhaps ostracize.

On a broader note, it is the fault of the parents and other parents across the country. How many parents these days teach their children about our culture and take part in activities? No, I don't mean the occasional temple visit or pooja at home. I'm talking about sending their kids to Sanskrit and Veda classes. Sending their kids to patashalas.. sitting with their kids and reading our scriptures, going to lectures by our gurus.. etc etc.

I can safely say, hardly any. My parents did so, I was therefore well grounded in my dharma and even if I "celebrate Christmas", I know where I stand and what the truth is. I will do this with my kid. We go to Carnatic concerts, lectures by great and realised people.

Most parents only care about stupid exams and parties and fitting in with their neighbours. So I say, that's their own fault. I can tell you within my own family, we are the deepest rooted to our dharma (in our generation)..

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:14 am
by hanumadu
Triank wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:07 am
jingo-gan, need some help:

here's a msg a friend got on his fb page by sm1:

"hi, I am ** from Hyderabad,India. I am going through a very tough time. We are a brahmin family.. My only child is 22 years just completed IIT. Now he is been mesmerized so much about Christianity and says he is a Christian. I am going through hell at home. I approched counselors and many. Nothing is effecting him. What to do to get him back to Hinduthism and take up his responsibility in his birth religion"

"Thank you for your reply.. He is from IIT Roorkee..we are started counselling session from Swami Paripurnanada's Sishya..and also trying max..But he is in complete memorization.. He has gone very deep in just 4 months. Please help us. How to get him back"

"he has become very stubborn.. He things Christianity is true.. Jesus is the true God.. what to do.?? Day by day I am looking hopes.. He is my only child . I can't even imagine he being like that...can any one help.. us.. He needs a strong and knowledgeable person."

i have contacted Shiva-Shakti org. next i will be writing to kalavai venkat. pls pour in your suggestions on how this could be tackled.

TIA!

P.S. - @muns saar, sorry i forgot to respond to your reply earlier. now i cant find it. could you pls link me to it?
How about read the bible and point out where it is wrong? There are plenty of verses which are down right violent, discriminatory and ridiculous.
Show some videos on shiva shakti youtube channel where christians called them and said they are leaving christianity.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:24 am
by Sachin
Vikas wrote:Also this resemblance to Indira - Is this really going to cut except for get few more for rallies. How many voters actually remember Indira and its not like during her Raj, Milk and Honey was flowing in UP. Has anyone heard her speaking in a rally ?
I don't think the resemblance to Indira Ghandi will benefit Mrs. Vadra in any manner. Because I am sure even the dumbest voter in UP would have some sense up his/her head. The "development" done in Amethi by the Congress is now getting circulated in social media. Image of Rajiv Ghandi entering a dilapidated hut in 1990s and Rahul Ghandi doing the same in 2010s is doing its rounds. It clearly shows that the kind of "development" which has reached Amethi. Off course the only chances for INC is that they have local patriarchs,goons, social group Netas who made money during INC regime "encouraging" their fan following to vote for INC.

Ra.Ga & Pappini seems to have also become completely "deracinated" from Indians. They are pretty much Italians living in India, in luxury. And I don't think Pappini is a good orator as well. Indira Ghandi etc. had more connections to her Indian roots, which these two folks are missing.
JohnTitor wrote:How many parents these days teach their children about our culture and take part in activities? No, I don't mean the occasional temple visit or pooja at home
You have nailed the problem. In my family I may have been the last child who actually sat in front of a lighted lamp every evening and chanted some basic bhajans every evening. Now this was before TV etc. became a household item. It is only today I realise the ill effects of completely ignoring one's own religion (and running after the luxuries), and that again is mainly through BRF and GDF. Today I see at least three generations below me who are clueless on their religious identity, NOT even having the basic knowledge on their religion to teach their kids. And pretty much all of them have become "secular" who finds sending the kid to any form of knowledge sharing on Hindu religion is making him/her a Sanghi ("communal"). My experience is mainly from what I have seen & felt at KL. What I do these days is to observe how many couples/families are doing a course correction (i.e knew the mistakes, and at least trying to take some corrective steps now) or have become completely "modern" and have started considering Hindu religion as a waste of time.

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:23 pm
by chetak
For the fundamentalist goras and many of the prominent newspapers of the west, it is "Hindu nationalism" that is causing them a serious bum rash.

The fact that the Hindus are now actively decrying and purposefully resisting such conversions that are strongly reminiscent of a depraved colonial, racist, intolerant and fundamentalist mindset is sending them into paroxysms of vengeful rage and vindictive response.

See how adroitly they have linked "Hindu nationalism" with the global phenomenon of padres bonking kids and nuns, a scandal so big and so wide spread that even the pope, after years of deliberate obfuscation and deceitful denial, has now been forced to acknowledge.

It has been going on for decades in India, and everyone who ever went to the church knew about it, layman and laywoman as well as the lay clergy and the lay ministry. It was seen merely as just another perk of their holy office.

BTW, one of the writers of the article is Suhasini Raj, the same vengeful xtian who duplicitously and slyly tried to enter sabarimala temple to prove her feminism and uphold "women's rights".




Twitter
"New York Times" reports:
A Kerala nun’s accusations of rape against a bishop in have shaken the country’s Catholics, driving a wedge between those who have called for reforms and those who want to maintain unity amid rising a riding tide of Hindu nationalism.

8:30 PM - 10 Feb 2019

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/09/worl ... ishop.html]Nun’s Rape Case Against Bishop Shakes a Catholic Bastion in India

Nun’s Rape Case Against Bishop Shakes a Catholic Bastion in India


By Maria Abi-Habib and Suhasini Raj
Feb. 9, 2019

KOCHI, India — When Bishop Franco Mulakkal agreed to personally celebrate the First Communion for Darly’s son, a rare honor in their Catholic Church in India, the family was overcome with pride.

During the ceremony, Darly looked over at her sister, a nun who worked with the bishop, to see her eyes spilling over with tears — tears of joy, she figured. But only later would she learn of her sister’s allegation that the night before, the bishop had summoned the nun to his quarters and raped her. The family says that was the first assault in a two-year ordeal in which the prelate raped her 13 times.

The bishop, who has maintained his innocence, will be charged and face trial by a special prosecutor on accusations of rape and intimidation, the police investigating the case said. But the church acknowledged the nun’s accusations only after five of her fellow nuns mutinied and publicly rallied to her side to draw attention to her yearlong quest for justice, despite what they described as heavy pressure to remain silent.

“We used to see the fathers of the church as equivalent to God, but not anymore,” said Darly, her voice shaking with emotion. “How can I tell my son about this, that the person teaching us the difference between right and wrong gave him his First Communion after committing such a terrible sin?”


The case in India, in the southern state of Kerala, is part of a larger problem in the church that Pope Francis addressed on Tuesday for the first time after decades of silence from the Vatican. He acknowledged that sexual abuse of nuns by clerics is a continuing problem in the church.

At a time when church attendance is low in the West, and empty parishes and monasteries are being shuttered across Europe and America, the Vatican increasingly relies on places like India to keep the faith growing.

“India’s clergy and nuns are hugely important to the Catholic Church in the West. The enthusiasm of Christians in Asia stands in stark contrast to the lower-temperature religion in the West,” said Diarmaid MacCulloch, a professor of church history at the University of Oxford.

But the scandal in Kerala is dividing India’s Catholics, who number about 20 million despite being a relatively small minority of a vast population.


Bishop Franco Mulakkal, center, after being questioned by the police in Kochi, India, last year.
Credit
Prakash Elamakkara/Associated Press


Image
Bishop Franco Mulakkal, center, after being questioned by the police in Kochi, India, last year.CreditPrakash Elamakkara/Associated Press
And there may be more to come: More nuns have stepped forward to report sexual abuse at the hands of priests, the police in Kerala State say. And in Kerala’s Pathanamthitta district, four priests have been accused of blackmailing women during confession, using the information to coerce them into sex, according to Sudhakaran Pillai, the head of the local crime branch.

“If this case goes ahead, it will be a new beginning and priests and bishops will be forced to be held accountable,” said the Rev. Augustine Vattoly, a priest in Kerala who was an early supporter of the nun’s accusations and said he was ordered by his superiors to back away or face repercussions.

“The church is losing its moral authority,” Father Vattoly said. “We are losing the faith of the people. The church will become a place without people if this continues. Just like in Europe, the young will no longer come here.”

Details of the nun’s accusations came from interviews with law enforcement officials and from her family and the five other nuns who saw the saga unfold inside the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church, which is based in India but answers to the Vatican.

Copies of the official complaints the nun addressed to church authorities by email and post were also provided to The New York Times. (The nun is not being named and her sister is being identified only by her first name because under Indian law, the media, including international news organizations, cannot identify rape victims.)

The nun’s family accuses Bishop Mulakkal, 54, of raping her repeatedly over a two-year period, dating from May 5, 2014.

The bishop could not be reached for comment, but church officials and the Kerala police say that he maintains he is innocent.

The nun, who belongs to the Missionaries of Jesus religious order, first informed church authorities of the assaults in January 2017, approaching nearly a dozen church officials, including bishops, a cardinal and representatives of the Vatican. Some cautioned her to wait, assuring her that the church would take action. Other officials forbade her to go to the police, her family said.

But the only action came last September, after the church’s silence led five other nuns to mutiny and come to Kerala’s High Court to stage a days-long protest.

“The church is losing its moral authority,” said the Rev. Augustine Vattoly, a priest in Kerala. “We are losing the faith of the people.”
Credit
Samyukta Lakshmi for The New York Times


Image

“The church is losing its moral authority,” said the Rev. Augustine Vattoly, a priest in Kerala. “We are losing the faith of the people.”CreditSamyukta Lakshmi for The New York Times

They sat in front of a large poster featuring the Pieta statue, the famous sculpture housed in St. Peter’s Basilica depicting Mary holding the limp body of Jesus in her lap after his crucifixion. Instead of Jesus, the poster featured a nun’s lifeless body. A placard read “Justice for nuns.”

About two weeks after the protests started, the Vatican stripped Bishop Mulakkal of his administrative duties. The next day, on Sept. 21, Kerala’s police arrested him.

“Retrospectively, the church should have taken action quicker if we had known a crime had really happened. If she thought the church was not acting properly, she should have gone to the police sooner,” said the Rev. Paul Karendan, a spokesman for the archdiocese that oversees the headquarters of the Syro-Malabar Church.

Father Karendan said that the church was slow to act at first, as they thought the nun was resisting transfer orders given by Bishop Mulakkal.

In Kerala, it is not uncommon for families to have one or two daughters take vows as nuns. Statues of Mary and Jesus line streets here and even Mass on a weekday is well attended.

India’s Christians, only about 2 percent of the population, tend to stand together in the face of any crisis.

India’s governing bloc, the Bharatiya Janata Party, or B.J.P., led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, is rooted in Hindu nationalism. In that environment, the scandal in Kerala has pitted Christians who believe the case is a stark call for reform within the church against those who want to maintain unity out of fear.

Mary Mavely, a 36-year-old Catholic in the capital, Delhi, said she was willing to give the nuns the benefit of the doubt as opposed to her mother, who immediately stood by the bishop.

“For my mother, she thinks that in the current political climate if we put the church in a bad light it is an opportunity for B.J.P. to blow things out of proportion. For me, I want it treated as a criminal offense and we should let the court decide,” Ms. Mavely said.


Catholic nuns and Muslim supporters demanding the arrest of Bishop Mulakkal outside the High Court in Kochi last year.
Credit
Agence France-Presse — Getty Images


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Catholic nuns and Muslim supporters demanding the arrest of Bishop Mulakkal outside the High Court in Kochi last year.CreditAgence France-Presse — Getty Images

Bishop Mulakkal received a loving welcome when he was released on bail in October, cheered and showered with flower petals when he returned to his diocese. His church posted a large banner featuring his photo and proclaiming a “hearty welcome.”

A senior police officer investigating the case said he believed that authorities had sufficient evidence to prove that Bishop Mulakkal both raped the nun and then intimidated her family and the families of the nuns who began the protest to silence them. The officer spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the case, as the final police report will be filed later this month before the trial can begin.

“We are broken. The church we have given our lives to won’t even give an ear to us,” said Anupama Kelamangalathuveli, a nun who served at the convent at the same time as the nun who said she had been raped.

“This fight isn’t just for us,” she added. “The church needs to listen to women and not just the priests and bishops.”

In November 2017, Cardinal George Alencherry discouraged the nun from taking her case to the media or police, according to her family and the other nuns. Representatives of Cardinal Alencherry did not respond to repeated requests for comment.

Desperate, the nun, a member of the Missionaries of Jesus religious order, decided to take her case directly to the Vatican by writing the pope’s representative in India, Archbishop Giambattista Diquattro.

“No sooner I reached the room than he pulled me toward him. I was numbed and terrified by his act. I took all efforts to get out, but in vain. He raped me brutally,” reads a letter the nun wrote to Archbishop Diquattro on January 28, 2018.

The letter went on to accuse Bishop Mulakkal of intimidating her and others into silence, and to explain how she had complained to various church authorities who failed to act.

Multiple emails and phone calls to Archbishop Diquattro requesting comment went unanswered.

Through more than a year of efforts to receive help within the church, she confided in five other nuns who had at one point lived with her at her convent, the St. Francis Mission Home, tucked away amid thick jungle in rural Kerala. Then they reached a breaking point.

The Mar Thoma Church in Kerala is where Indian Catholics believe that Jesus’ apostle Thomas, landed by boat to bring Christianity to India. The faith is deeply embedded in Kerala.
Credit
Samyukta Lakshmi for The New York Times


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The Mar Thoma Church in Kerala is where Indian Catholics believe that Jesus’ apostle Thomas, landed by boat to bring Christianity to India. The faith is deeply embedded in Kerala.CreditSamyukta Lakshmi for The New York Times
In April last year, the five, some who had been moved to other convents, defied church rules to slip away from their residences across India, taking buses and trains to travel hundreds of miles to join their sister and support her.

The nuns said they decided to go public only after Bishop Mulakkal filed several police cases against them and their families in June, accusing them of plotting his murder. The police said his accusations had been dismissed.

The nun wrote a second letter to Archbishop Diquattro on June 25, days after Bishop Mulakkal filed his accusations with police.

“I was waiting for the Catholic Church to give me justice,” she wrote, but as her situation had grown worse, “I am forced to approach for the legal procedures,” read a copy of the email, written in halting English.

Three days after sending the letter, she went to the police on June 28 and filed a complaint accusing Bishop Mulakkal of rape.

As the weeks went by, the church ordered the nuns to leave St. Francis and return to their respective convents.

Worried they would be evicted, and with the police slow to respond, the nuns decided in early September to take the nearly two-hour drive to Kochi, a major city in Kerala, and protest outside the High Court. When they returned the next day with their placards, they were surprised to see dozens of churchgoers, activists and even priests, holding their own signs demanding Bishop Mulakkal be held accountable.

The nuns are now filing multiple civil cases against church officials in India, claiming they tried to intimidate them to drop the case or ignored the rape accusations. The nuns are still at St. Francis, ignoring repeated orders issued by church authorities last month to disband. On Saturday, with the nuns planning another public protest, the church revoked those orders — giving the nuns a small victory.

“We took a vow to be in a congregation — to make the congregation our family,” said Sister Josephine Villoonickal, one of the nuns, who had been ordered to return to her convent in northern Jharkhand, about 1,500 miles away. “They are now trying to destroy this family.”

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:35 pm
by chetak
hanumadu wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:14 am
Triank wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:07 am
jingo-gan, need some help:

here's a msg a friend got on his fb page by sm1:

"hi, I am ** from Hyderabad,India. I am going through a very tough time. We are a brahmin family.. My only child is 22 years just completed IIT. Now he is been mesmerized so much about Christianity and says he is a Christian. I am going through hell at home. I approched counselors and many. Nothing is effecting him. What to do to get him back to Hinduthism and take up his responsibility in his birth religion"

"Thank you for your reply.. He is from IIT Roorkee..we are started counselling session from Swami Paripurnanada's Sishya..and also trying max..But he is in complete memorization.. He has gone very deep in just 4 months. Please help us. How to get him back"

"he has become very stubborn.. He things Christianity is true.. Jesus is the true God.. what to do.?? Day by day I am looking hopes.. He is my only child . I can't even imagine he being like that...can any one help.. us.. He needs a strong and knowledgeable person."

i have contacted Shiva-Shakti org. next i will be writing to kalavai venkat. pls pour in your suggestions on how this could be tackled.

TIA!

P.S. - @muns saar, sorry i forgot to respond to your reply earlier. now i cant find it. could you pls link me to it?
How about read the bible and point out where it is wrong? There are plenty of verses which are down right violent, discriminatory and ridiculous.
Show some videos on shiva shakti youtube channel where christians called them and said they are leaving christianity.
you may like to start with the four gospels.

why were only these four specifically and purposely chosen from among literally hundreds of gospels that were in existence at the time??.

By the time the four gospels came about, the mythical christ had already been dead for many centuries.

There is absolutely no concrete and verifiable evidence of his ever having existed.

none of the people who wrote the hundreds of gospels had ever seen christ in person, heard him in person or known him personally.

It was all hearsay, passed down through many hands and in many versions, so the choice of the four was political and motivated, to say the very least.

someone would have seriously benefitted in the propagation of this very specific line of thought.

To use today's terminology, they would be the middlemen in this enterprise, no??

I leave you with a single thought.

Why is judas so despised by xtians?? whereas, in actual fact, judas was the FAVOURITE disciple.

Without judas, there could be no christ,

no betrayal,--> no crucifixion,

no crucifixion,--> no resurrection

no resurrection --> no christ.


Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:18 pm
by sgk19862004
So after Quantico another TV show Strike Back is showing the same hindu terror plot .