The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

News and Discussions about politics, current affairs, international relations, economy, elections, state level politics etc.
This forum is strictly moderated.
Primus
BGR Member
Posts: 494
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:20 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:03 pm

BhairavP wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:03 am
This is for all General Class people, not Upper caste. That means it applies to non - Hindus as well. Also provides for 10 percent reservation in non - Minority educational institutions.
Not true, Sambit Patra made this very clear in one of the debates. Since only Hinduism recognizes castes, the 10% reservation is only available to the poor within the UC Hindu community. Not open for Christians or Muslims. In that sense this is no different from existing reservations that are caste based and also apply therefore only to Hindus. It is a different matter that dalit Hindus convert to Christianity and avail of the benefits without declaring they are no longer Hindus.

In the end, one can only hope that the caste-based reservations would slowly be withdrawn, but that as has been said, would be political suicide for any party.

abhik
BGR Newbie
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by abhik » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:05 pm

Supratik wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:53 pm
Next step should be to make the OBC reservations only for H/S/B/J as neither Islam nor Christianity has caste system. You can avail reservation if you re-convert.
AFAIK the "C" in OBC stands for "Class", Including mainorities was always part of the plan from the beginning (unlike SC/ST).

chetak
BGR Oldie
Posts: 1538
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:08 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:06 pm

Primus wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:03 pm
BhairavP wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:03 am
This is for all General Class people, not Upper caste. That means it applies to non - Hindus as well. Also provides for 10 percent reservation in non - Minority educational institutions.
Not true, Sambit Patra made this very clear in one of the debates. Since only Hinduism recognizes castes, the 10% reservation is only available to the poor within the UC Hindu community. Not open for Christians or Muslims. In that sense this is no different from existing reservations that are caste based and also apply therefore only to Hindus. It is a different matter that dalit Hindus convert to Christianity and avail of the benefits without declaring they are no longer Hindus.

In the end, one can only hope that the caste-based reservations would slowly be withdrawn, but that as has been said, would be political suicide for any party.
The sickulars will object, making the polarisation more pronounced

Primus
BGR Member
Posts: 494
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:20 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:56 pm

chetak wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:06 pm
Primus wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:03 pm
BhairavP wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:03 am
This is for all General Class people, not Upper caste. That means it applies to non - Hindus as well. Also provides for 10 percent reservation in non - Minority educational institutions.
Not true, Sambit Patra made this very clear in one of the debates. Since only Hinduism recognizes castes, the 10% reservation is only available to the poor within the UC Hindu community. Not open for Christians or Muslims. In that sense this is no different from existing reservations that are caste based and also apply therefore only to Hindus. It is a different matter that dalit Hindus convert to Christianity and avail of the benefits without declaring they are no longer Hindus.

In the end, one can only hope that the caste-based reservations would slowly be withdrawn, but that as has been said, would be political suicide for any party.
The sickulars will object, making the polarisation more pronounced
Already started. I watched two debates yesterday on this issue (too much time to waste :D ). In both the Congoon and BSP/SP guys kept saying it is a 'political lollypop' and that it is not going to pass without accepting that they are the ones who will oppose it. It will immediately wipe out any NOTA or fence-sitter advantage they may have had. It is IMHO a master stroke, even if it is a desperate last minute measure.

Somehow I suspect this is the first among many (hopefully) strategies AS/Namo have thought up of . One big advantage of being in power at the center is that in an election year you can give people what they want, even if the costs may have to be borne later. So watch out for tax breaks for the middle class, pursuit of Mallya and others, verdict on Augusta, ordinance on RJB (if SC fails to deliver) and possibly Sabarimala.

Supratik
Forum Moderator
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:50 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:32 pm

Primus, it is not clear. It says general category which could include other religions as some news channels are claiming. Both OBC and this reservation are grey areas as far as religion is concerned. The constitution does not support religion based reservation. However, like the SC reservations which explicitly state which religions are allowed the OBC reservation and this reservation should be clarified. Caste is specific to Hindus and in India S/B/J are considered Hindus according to law.

Supratik
Forum Moderator
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:50 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:01 pm

Also this reservation is not solely for upper castes e.g. Jats are general category in HY, Reddys are general category in TG/AP, etc. All of them will now get reservations.

Supratik
Forum Moderator
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:50 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:21 pm

Leprosy for divorce law amended in LS. This has been now made religion neutral i.e. supersedes Muslim personal law.

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/nda-gover ... slamic-law

Supratik
Forum Moderator
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:50 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:43 pm

LS passes quota bill. If it passes RS, C-system attempts to stoke caste issues before elections is dead.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/india ... 45741.html

Vikas
BGR Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:50 pm

If Indians of any caste , color or religion need inducements to vote for NM, then shame on them. What more do we expect a PM to do to deserve a second chance. Maybe MMS had cracked the code that we still want White Lordship to lord over us.
Would they still be fawning over RG if his skin color was similar to Nawazuddin or Mamta ?
How are We then any different from the neighborhood we have inherited where countries try to play India against China Or India against Bakis to milk us. In India, we play BJP against everyone to extract personal benefits.

How can anyone in his sane mind even think about bringing RG as PM of India. I mean..no I give up. Its a shame to even see RG in news cycle throwing muck and allegations against NM which are being lapped up by media. Don't know if ordinary person on the street buys this BS.
The man like his father and Grandmother and Granny's father has zero credentials to even become Chowkidar in his own house and yet he lectures the most respected and loved PM of India.

Supratik
Forum Moderator
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:50 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:21 pm

5 judge constitution bench to hear RJB case. Only one apart from CJI that is known face is Chandrachud who is likely to vote against the temple.

https://www.news18.com/news/india/5-jud ... 95691.html

chetak
BGR Oldie
Posts: 1538
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:08 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:36 pm

Supratik wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:21 pm
5 judge constitution bench to hear RJB case. Only one apart from CJI that is known face is Chandrachud who is likely to vote against the temple.

https://www.news18.com/news/india/5-jud ... 95691.html
the case has dragged on long enough because no one has the b@!!$ to give a verdict.

they desperately want the GoI to bring an ordinance and then all will claim that they were just going to give a verdict that very hour but the govt interfered in their work and how democracy has been subverted by Hindutva forces.

Primus
BGR Member
Posts: 494
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:20 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:01 pm

^

Agree. this is the hottest potato ever to have fallen in the lap of the hizzoners. They simply do not know what to do with it. I admire the Allahabad judges who gave the verdict on the archeological survey, at least they acted very predictably. No muslim judge would ever go with the temple and the sickular Hindu judges simply don't have the courage to do it. So they will keep it pending forever until somebody else takes the decision away from them.

bharotshontan
BGR Newbie
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:39 pm
Location: Kolkata

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by bharotshontan » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:34 pm

Hung out with my wife's extended Delhi based family over the New year holidays. They're AAP supporters but were saying they'll vote Modi in general election because the thought of RaGa as PM is "disgusting".

No dhoti shivers here

Primus
BGR Member
Posts: 494
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:20 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:43 pm

bharotshontan wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:34 pm
Hung out with my wife's extended Delhi based family over the New year holidays. They're AAP supporters but were saying they'll vote Modi in general election because the thought of RaGa as PM is "disgusting".

No dhoti shivers here

Good to know, and yet I cannot understand why anybody would still support AAP, although some in my family in Delhi do as well.

krisna
BGR Newbie
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:56 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by krisna » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:00 pm

About AAP, my friend actually contributed time and money :oops: :cry: :evil: to these b grade scamgress despite moi and others informing the friend. But a couple of years later he wisened out and now firmly in NaMo camp.

krisna
BGR Newbie
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:56 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by krisna » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:09 pm

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ne ... 940536.ece
Amid walk-outs and allegations against the ruling BJP of hatching a “sinister plot” to divide the country on communal lines, the Lok Sabha on Tuesday passed the contentious Citizenship (Amendment) Bill, 2019, which seeks to provide Indian citizenship to non-Muslims from Bangaldesh, Pakistan and Afghanistan.
The Bill provides Indian citizenship to the Hindus, Jains, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists and Parsis from Bangladesh, Pakistan and Afghanistan after six years of residence in India, instead of 12 years currently, even if they do not possess any document. “They have no place to go, except India,” he said, adding several that leaders, including first Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru were in favour of giving shelter to persecuted minorities from the neighbouring countries.
The burden of those persecuted migrants will be shared by the whole country. Assam alone should not bear the burden. Government of India is committed to help the State government and people of Assam,” he said.
as usual scamgress led the opposition.

la.khan
BGR Newbie
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:48 am
Location: चौकिदार लखन

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by la.khan » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:26 am

krisna wrote: https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ne ... 940536.ece
Amid walk-outs and allegations against the ruling BJP of hatching a “sinister plot” to divide the country on communal lines, the Lok Sabha on Tuesday passed the contentious Citizenship (Amendment) Bill, 2019, which seeks to provide Indian citizenship to non-Muslims from Bangaldesh, Pakistan and Afghanistan.
The Bill provides Indian citizenship to the Hindus, Jains, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists and Parsis from Bangladesh, Pakistan and Afghanistan after six years of residence in India, instead of 12 years currently, even if they do not possess any document. “They have no place to go, except India,” he said, adding several that leaders, including first Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru were in favour of giving shelter to persecuted minorities from the neighbouring countries.
The burden of those persecuted migrants will be shared by the whole country. Assam alone should not bear the burden. Government of India is committed to help the State government and people of Assam,” he said.
as usual scamgress led the opposition.
A welcome move by GoI. But what happens if the Cong(I)s and/or other assorted psuedo-seculars return to power? They will amend this very law to include RoPers from pakiland, BD, Afghanistan, Rohingyas from Myanmar. With these tur*s, minority appeasement politics always prevail over national security :evil:

a_bharat
BGR Newbie
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:50 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by a_bharat » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:27 am

I don't know why folks here are happy with the 10% reservation decision by the BJP govt just before the elections. This is a clear case of Modi putting his self interest above the country. This is a race to the bottom. Now the other parties will come back with demands for reservations in private sector jobs. The demand was already there, and will become much more stronger now and BJP will not be able to (or rather will not want to) resist it. Let the country go to the dogs.

crams
BGR Oldie
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:28 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:32 am

Vikas wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:50 pm
If Indians of any caste , color or religion need inducements to vote for NM, then shame on them. What more do we expect a PM to do to deserve a second chance. Maybe MMS had cracked the code that we still want White Lordship to lord over us.
Would they still be fawning over RG if his skin color was similar to Nawazuddin or Mamta ?
How are We then any different from the neighborhood we have inherited where countries try to play India against China Or India against Bakis to milk us. In India, we play BJP against everyone to extract personal benefits.

How can anyone in his sane mind even think about bringing RG as PM of India. I mean..no I give up. Its a shame to even see RG in news cycle throwing muck and allegations against NM which are being lapped up by media. Don't know if ordinary person on the street buys this BS.
The man like his father and Grandmother and Granny's father has zero credentials to even become Chowkidar in his own house and yet he lectures the most respected and loved PM of India.
You've been reading my posts :-). I don't want to indulge in the standard cliche of hyping every election is seminal, crucual etc. But IMO, this 2019 election is the most crucial since 1947. Borrowing a quote from Shefali Vaidya's twitter feed, to emphasize:

Shefali Vaidya

Verified account

@ShefVaidya

#2019 is going to be the battle of all battles. Mullahs, Missionaries, Marxists, McCauley’s kids, Mercenaries are all united against one man, trying their best to ensure that @narendramodi doesn’t get a second term. Whose side are YOU on?
Also, on the clinging to Pappu family, you are dead right, I guess you you are reading from my posts :-). If this was not a European white family, they would have been dumped like a charmin roll long time ago. Nation building is an arduous exercise, and BJP/RSS have been trying to unite Hindus of all castes, but the divisions are so deep that this experiment needs time. At the moment, colonial disease runs deep in the Indian mind, and vast majority of 'lower castes' see in Pappu a white benevolent Lord who will deliver them from the oppressive 'upper castes'. This is the psychology BJP is up against.

To elaborate, we all know and ModiJi said in his new year interview, Congoons are an out and out casteist party, except their casteism is directed against 'upper castes' so it doesn't draw the ire of self styled egalitarian elites who themselves are 'upper caste' and benefit as Lords in a Congoon ecosystem. So it is Hindu hating Dalits and others like Mallikarju Khagre and others who are the ones who will never let go off their white Italian messiahs. The rest of the Congoons to protect their asses have no option but to go along even if they find it distasteful to have Pappu at the helm. I admire the party unity and disciple in this regard because despite being reduced to 44 seats, the well endowed slaves of Pappu like Kapil Sibal etc have used every ecosystem tool at their command to make a ferocious come back.

And my prediction. If Congoons even manage 100 odd seats in the LS polls, and NDA falls short of 272, I will bet my last penny that entire thugbandhan will rally around the colonial lordship like a flock of sheep and coronate Pappu, no doubt about this. It will be the most disgusting spectacle in "independent" India. And the humiliation heaped on BJP and proud nationalist Hindus at large will be a telling blow. India will truly be a banana republic. And unlike pusillanimous BJP who let Congoon ecosystem thrive despite winning an unprecedented majority in 2014, Pappu and Co will use the very state institutions that they claim ModiJi is "undermining" to obliterate BJP/RSS once they come to power.

JohnTitor
BGR Member
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:09 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:34 am

I'm not in favour of this law.

1. Hindus from these countries are certainly welcome but congoons back in power means they will let seculars in (most Banglas in the country are as result of this)

2. They can always overturn the law of they come to power, so it's kinda moot

3. It doesn't really help BJP, Hindus by and large don't care about them

4. Seculars can walk in claiming to be Hindus and there's no way to tell, another loophole that'll be used to settle in India and alter the demographic

Instead, BJP should just grant the Hindus who come during their term citizenship on an ad-hoc basis.

JohnTitor
BGR Member
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:09 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:42 am

a_bharat wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:27 am
I don't know why folks here are happy with the 10% reservation decision by the BJP govt just before the elections. This is a clear case of Modi putting his self interest above the country. This is a race to the bottom. Now the other parties will come back with demands for reservations in private sector jobs. The demand was already there, and will become much more stronger now and BJP will not be able to (or rather will not want to) resist it. Let the country go to the dogs.
At this point, it doesn't matter. At this time, Modi first and country first are one and the same.

If Modi doesn't come back to power then the country is dead. So getting to power is all that matters. Reservations will no go anytime soon. Congress has ensured that it is here to stay.

Also irrespective of what Modi does congoons will do what they do anyway, they will sell their mother to get back into power.

abhijit
BGR Member
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:26 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by abhijit » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:08 am

This law is dangerous. next party in power can easily amend it making millions of immigrants legal. If GoI wants to give citizenship to certain section then they can still do it without making exclusive law.

JohnTitor
BGR Member
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:09 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:27 am

Absolutely, further.. this is a bad time to push it.

Assam and the NE will vote against BJP in may .. BJP loves to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

Vikas
BGR Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:56 am

^Sam, Dham, Dhand, Bhedh - whatever it takes to protect this country from the clutches of Mullah-Marxists-Maino brigade.
With NM at helm post GE'2019, Hindus will live to fight another day. This war will not be won by couple of NM PM'ship but surely we can win this battle by having NM rule till 2029.

This day dreaming about 'we have survived Islamic and Xtian rule in the past and we will survive Congoon rule' may not be relevant now. The effort to balkanize India and convert the pagans/Kaffirs was never the KPI of BIF forces in the past as it is now.

Vikas
BGR Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:57 am

JohnTitor wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:27 am
Absolutely, further.. this is a bad time to push it.

Assam and the NE will vote against BJP in may .. BJP loves to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory
JT, Unless BJP is populated with fools, They would have done political calculations to push for this bill. A loss here will be compensated by a win somewhere else.

Post Reply