The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

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Vriksh
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vriksh » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:17 pm

hanumadu wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:04 pm
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 110665.cms

Stupid TOI does not let me copy but the gist is...

An internal audit of the Agusta company found the end use of 276cr dubious.
SP Tyagi and his relatives are paid 11k dollars per month for few/several months.
So nice of this investigation to have taken so much time that no action can be taken in time, no accusations will stick, and the political impact will be all but negligible. Even the investigators will go slow given elections are around the corner and why should they take undue risks. Meanwhile opponents are yelling rafale from the rooftops. What exactly did Modi get by not supporting Swamy vs Jetli ("we don't do politics of vendatta) over National Herald and several other cases?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by RajaRaja » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:25 pm

Mort Walker wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:01 pm
Vriksh wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:43 pm
Your last words puncture the entire linear thing, which is my point which you don't get. That development spending which is used to drive wasteful consumption, while the beneficiaries of the largesse don't want skills but freebies.. that sort of developmental spending is creating a fake growth, on the backs of the real economic engine that is driving those islands in india generating real growth. And what happens when those engines are more and more outcompeted by the rest of the world, having seen no investment as all investment was diverted towards freebies? See Bangalore's infra.
I disagree that development spending is driving wasteful consumption and the beneficiaries all want freebies. I would say about 1/3 of beneficiaries want freebies. Getting freebies isn't limited to the poor. I do know capable engineering college graduates who don't want to work in the private sector and will sit around until they get government jobs.
Correct. A study done by former economic adviser Arvind Subramanian between 2014-15 found out that bulk of the benefit from subsides goes to rich and middle class. For example railways, rich and middle class use 70% of the subsidies, poor only 30%, similar story with electricity subsides, poor use little elctricity, rich/middle class consume far more. Similar stories in other areas too.

So while the rich and middle class continuously complain about subsidies given to poor, they actually are the main beneficiary!

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vriksh » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:39 pm

Are Dipanker, quit the US and come to India and join the Maoists!

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vriksh » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:40 pm

Image

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by RajaRaja » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:49 pm

Supratik wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:17 pm
Corporate India has always backed Cong. They have been in power for close to 60 years. Like any empire/dynasty they will have their people in every nook and corner of the country. That is why it is necessary for BJP to win elections to bring down this machinery. Otherwise it will be back to old business.
That may have been the case in past, not recently though. After the Campaign finance reform i.e. anonymous electoral bonds, BJP received 95% of all corporate contributions, rest including Congress the remaining 5%.

By the perception of those covering the election, BJP massively outspent Congress in the recent elections, by a ratio of anywhere between 15:1 to 25:1.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vriksh » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:10 pm

Everyone is honest enough to only contribute via electoral bonds. Yippee yay.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Indrad » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:46 pm

Cattle smugglers ask for 20 lakh in the name of protection money from Police officer, threaten to kill his family in case non-payment https://hindi.news18.com/amp/news/uttar ... ssion=true

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Indrad » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:49 pm

Ahmed Patel continues to be kingmaker inside congress, he appointed Gehlot and got younger dynasts sobered.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Indrad » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:50 pm

@KanchanGupta
16h16 hours ago
More Kanchan Gupta Retweeted Shatrubhanja
Yogi had a 69% strike rate: 74 rallies in #AssemblyElections2018 with 51 wins for BJP. Strike rate would be higher if you exclude Telangana. In Rajasthan he addressed rallies in 26 constituencies; BJP won in 25 of them. The 'Yogi Factor' story got buried in pointless blather.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:14 pm

^^^ Guys, is this really true. Post election debacle, I am wary of taking any statistic by someone pro-BJP at face value. Reason being that libtrads are almost unanimous in declaring that wherever YogiJi campaigned, BJP came out pauper. I don't take them seriously either, but not sure where the truth is.

I will only use my common sense. I am fairly convinced now that as a result of among other things, short-term pain and suffering due to Demo/GST (however good they in the long-term) and maybe other factors, lower economic strata were angry with ModiJi/BJP whom they blame for their penury, and were conned by Pappu's promise of free money. Under this hypothesis, it is absolutely unconvincing to suggest that those suffering would have been swayed by YogiJi's Hinduthva advocacy.

Coming to 2019, IMO, ModiJi should forget all the long term structural reforms that could cause short term pain. He should just open up the govt wallet and blitzkrieg the rural areas, in parallel, unleash YogiJi to draw out the faithful on voting day, and of course, last but not the least, go hammer and tongs on corruption and make Pappu & Co the center piece on this one. And in this, gloves need to be taken off. If Pappu unleashes foul-mouths like Pawan Khera, BJP should give a free hand to Sambit Patra & Co to attack Sonia Gandhi.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by KJo » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:25 pm

I agree with crams. Many ultra-BJP types have gone off the deep end and are as nutty as the libtard Khangressis. One old friend of mine was busy posting that Modi/Shah lost the 3 states on purpose. Very chankyan :roll: .
And the usual stuff that Sonia is a bar dancer, Rajiv is a muslim/Christian, Sanjay is Indira's illegimate son, Taj Mahal is a Hindu temple etc.

These guys are as insufferable as the smug sickulars.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by krisna » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:13 am

Vriksh wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:48 pm
krisna wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:30 pm
<snip>
please avoid extrapolating the whole issue. Indians are not corrupt basically. A huge amount of honesty present in Indians. We have the lowest in all bad things in a society. the reason is our relatively better moral fiber/compass despite very poor law and judicial support. I wont go into details of these. not relevant here. Same Indians have the best honesty and law-abiding persons in foreign countries. This can not magically come just by migration.
I wish I was as optimistic as you are, but honesty, moral fiber etc are affectations of the middle class. Those who emigrate become middle class if they aren't already and pick up traits of local societies and are subject to strict law enforcement so are forced to be honest.

Vast majority of low-income groups in most Indian states will do anything to survive. They don't have the luxury of all this navel gazing.
Those in urban areas see luxury around themselves and stealing, theft are all too common.
Many historical trading classes see paying taxes etc as being stupid & unfair. They will do anything to avoid it.
Go to any Indian city right now and a full 3rd of the shops are still running a parallel non GST, non bill economy. Openly.
rhytha wrote:I had come to this conclusion some time back. You need to do some psyco-analysis of the Indian voter.

Indians are generally corrupt.
I will elaborate more now which I thought people will understand from my post.
I maintain Indians are not corrupt basically . In India the amount of lawlessness slow judiciary, rich and famous escape from crimes. woefully inadequate govt services etc makes a person become corrupt which is what I meant. Despite these shortcomings, we have one of the lowest crime rate in all fields wrt population. we have low police/lawyer/banker/doctor/... you name it compared to our population. It is amazing that a country of over 1 billion runs on a pathetic short supply of govt services. It is almost certain that there will be a civil war amongst its citizens due to its weakness inherent in the above set up. But miraculously India is surviving and kicking all odds. Probabaly the only country in the world having democracy fucntioning and kicking well. Many developing independent countries post WW2 have had tumultous times with military coups civil wars etc etc.

As an test or experiment check all countries with low ratio of professionals/police/lawyers etc etc to population and see their crime rates. Many have civil wars or govt control their areas inefficiently. surpriisngly also check wrt relgions-- No kidding here also with comparable sizes of population ratio.

If the same occurs in western countries ex usa it will be doldrums as they have high crime rates despite well oiled law and order with judiciary.

--------------------------------------------------------
ex- India has over 66% as undertrials in prisons due to judiciary failure-- unthinkable in western countries. In usa there are convicted persons charged with crime in prison. Still usa has huge prisoner population upto 25% of the world. and nearly 50% of female prisoners. If Indian juidicary becomes efficient and undertrials comes down like in usa- imagine the effect.


All countries in the world have issues with non reporting of crimes including usa. So one cannot single out India alone on this.

It is foolish of some posters here to think Indians are corrupt and magically become less corrupt due to better policing in western countries.(No doubt important but not enough overall)

Heck even in non western countries Indians are better as in some african countries and islands in pacific Indian Atlantic oceans etc. These countries have law and order comparable to India or slightly better or worse depending on the country involved.



------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately with India becoming poor due to britshits etc. we have to fend for ourselves with huge population with hungry mouths to feed. Our earlier govts used the commanding heights of govt powers to help people. No proper use of local solutions to solve some key problems of food security infrastructure law and order and security. we went from bad to worse with our gdp dropping from <4% to <3 in 1980s. Later in 1990s economic reforms started which helped us rise in spectacular way(relative to anemic times for 4o years).


Because of lopsided priorities and inefficient governance, corruption took main seat to ensure survival of families. Huge ques in fair price shops, kerosenes, water, elctricity--- you name them. I as a child/youth have been thru all of them with no electricity, no water, wake up at midnight for 1 hour of water,use of tankers etc etc. poor quality of grains (with insects inside), adulteratedkerosene at fair price shops and many more.

Hence to ensure adequate food security , a common Indian is forced to become corrupt otherwise things will not move. Given this state for a couple of generations-- corruption becomes a national malady. Even tom dick and henry will shout Indians are corrupt and are born corrupt.

Hope posters look thru the whole issue.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Mort Walker » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:43 am

Vriksh wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:39 pm
Are Dipanker, quit the US and come to India and join the Maoists!
I didn't know that was that poster. He's in the socialist paradise of the People's Republic of Kalifornia. The Bay area is the home of the American Naxal party. Anyway, the BJP should strive to become like the Republican party in the US. The analogy is not entirely accurate, but a nationalist party as opposed to an anti-nationalist party.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Aditya_V » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:59 am

Haldiram wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:49 pm


That may have been the case in past, not recently though. After the Campaign finance reform i.e. anonymous electoral bonds, BJP received 95% of all corporate contributions, rest including Congress the remaining 5%.

By the perception of those covering the election, BJP massively outspent Congress in the recent elections, by a ratio of anywhere between 15:1 to 25:1.
Election fraud is still done through spending through shell companies and NGO's, INC has the muscle power here and probably outspends BJP 100:1. How do get 1 community to come out and vote by more than 90% as Kamal Nath said, it is by arranging Transport, Food and allowances. Huge costs which can never be matched in a transparent manner.

By offical declarations before Rahul Gandhi assets are not worth 1 crore but he spends 150 days on Holidays being a VIP, that shows every year he spends many multiples of his Net worth. The more honest person gets more easily hammered due to transperency.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Raj Malhotra » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:13 am

I think there is unanimity that nothing is Modi fault & everything should be blamed on corrupt trader & professional class. Bloody banias who supported Sangh for Three generations are all chors while gora MNCs are new devtaas.

Cool, let's wait for 2019 now. I wonder if Imran Khan also has a mother and who will be anointed to fall down on her feet.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Aditya_V » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:38 am

And Yes INC has no support from Middle men and Traders. Relience rose through MOdi support and did not exist during INC times. World is flat. MNC's and thier employees have been very critical of Modi and he has supported them. It is INC which helps MNC's and supports poverty.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:07 am

Vriksh wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:25 pm
Sicanta wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:57 pm
While certainly a reason, it would more affect the hand to mouth class who can be bought off with money power, their daily lives being a constant struggle. But it doesn't explain the sudden willingness of middle class to vote bjp. They all knew that bjp was in support of gst, constantly heard modi say - na khaunga, na khane dunga. They all knew what they were voting into power
They thought na khaunga, na khane dunga. meant Govt scams. Not their low level tax evasion.
Maybe but that's Also the problem.

They should have focussed on stopping the bigger scams and corruption. While the average Joe stood in line for hours in the sun and got his 50k exchanged, the rich simply phoned their branch manager and converted their crores to the new notes in minutes. All state and private banks were involved in the game.

Then when you harass the local trader over 1000 rupee evasion but he sees bigger players get away with crores of evasion, of course he'll be pissed off. And rightly so.

All laws in India apply to the poor and powerless. At least with scangress everyone could be corrupt. So goes the logic.
Last edited by JohnTitor on Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:11 am

krisna wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:30 pm
Mort Walker wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:05 pm
<snip>
Which begs the question, are Indians inherently corrupt as part of their national character?
please avoid extrapolating the whole issue. Indians are not corrupt basically. A huge amount of honesty present in Indians. We have the lowest in all bad things in a society. the reason is our relatively better moral fiber/compass despite very poor law and judicial support. I wont go into details of these. not relevant here. Same Indians have the best honesty and law-abiding persons in foreign countries. This can not magically come just by migration.

The corrupt issue is propagandu to berate Indians and put them down. 1)Some are corrupt- nothing can be done as in any society. 2)many are made to become corrupt because of scamgress ecosystem.we can get things done only if we grease the system because scamgress during its long periods have made Indians into this issue.
Absolutely disagree.

Indians are one of the most corrupt lot. When I was studying abroad, I had a classmate who stole bank forms so that he could use as a "rough paper". Sorry but the dishonesty gene is strong among Indians, whether you want to accept it or not. In London Indians are known for "selling half used train tickets"... I helped catch one idiot.

Indians by their very nature want an easy way out everything, easy way to make money, easy way to finish the job etc. That's why Indians never pay attention to detail or have pride in their work, because they'd rather finish it off

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:17 am

How was Modi's Rae Baraeli rally? Any ground reports?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:03 am


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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:49 am

x posted from the social media thread

The Ujjwala gas connection scheme of the BJP govt has become a problem in rural areas.

Pradhan Mantri Ujjwala Yojana is a scheme of the Ministry of Petroleum & Natural Gas for providing LPG connections to women from Below Poverty Line (BPL)

The cost of the refill is close to a thousand bucks which means that many families simply cannot afford it and it causes great resentment and frustration.

If it is subsidized, rampant diversion and misuse will result because of the differential pricing.

The only way is to reduce the price of each refill cylinder by reducing the size of the refill cylinder to maybe 5 Kgs each, instead of the usual 14.5 Kgs.

Somewhat like selling shampoo in sachets instead of investing in a big bottle. This marketing technique has worked well in rural areas and may work for the smaller gas cylinder too.

This is one of the reasons why rural women turned away and voted against the BJP.

Could someone tweet this to the petroleum minister/ministry??

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Indrad » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:42 am

Remember that they don’t have to prove they are better than Modi. They are trying to prove that Modi is just like them.
they are counting on sixty years of Congress scams to convince people that there must be a scam in the Rafale Deal because there always is.
https://www.opindia.com/2018/12/rafale- ... eir-level/

ps pls take Indian;s honesty & dishonesty discussion to other thread, this is only thread of political & current developments in India.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by krisna » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:30 pm

JohnTitor wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:11 am
<snip>

please avoid extrapolating the whole issue. Indians are not corrupt basically. A huge amount of honesty present in Indians. We have the lowest in all bad things in a society. the reason is our relatively better moral fiber/compass despite very poor law and judicial support. I wont go into details of these. not relevant here. Same Indians have the best honesty and law-abiding persons in foreign countries. This can not magically come just by migration.

The corrupt issue is propagandu to berate Indians and put them down. 1)Some are corrupt- nothing can be done as in any society. 2)many are made to become corrupt because of scamgress ecosystem.we can get things done only if we grease the system because scamgress during its long periods have made Indians into this issue
.

Absolutely disagree.

Indians are one of the most corrupt lot. When I was studying abroad, I had a classmate who stole bank forms so that he could use as a "rough paper". Sorry but the dishonesty gene is strong among Indians, whether you want to accept it or not. In London Indians are known for "selling half used train tickets"... I helped catch one idiot.

Indians by their very nature want an easy way out everything, easy way to make money, easy way to finish the job etc. That's why Indians never pay attention to detail or have pride in their work, because they'd rather finish it off


Please read my post fully posted here.

It looks silly to generalise few incidents and extrapolate it to whole Indians. pretty awful isnt it.

consider this as an example quoting your own post-- britons are one of the most corrupt lot. I saw a classmate who robbed another one. They cheated in local tube train. they robbed a phone from an old man. etc etc etc . Get the drift.

Then extrapolate it to the community.


It only explains the person not the community. The data/facts are out there with logic to make sense of it.

---------------------------------------------------
As an aside animla experiments have been done which shows innovation(good and bad) does occur to the best of situations. As an Indian also an animal- with the prevailing disparities, obvioulsy some Indians do corruption ( bad innovation).


A corrupt nation will not rise to the top and stay for long. Corrupt societies are ripe for disasters prime being civil wars internal disturances etc. India has its share but not to the extent which occurs in nations of comparable population ratios.

Of course the famous being prediction till 1960s that India is an artificial country, robbers thieves will rule - will split along many fault lines and wars will occur with detruction and famines all over. Now no one thinks like it except ourselves being mentally slaved to varying extent.
Hope people think over it and see the big picture avoiding self flaggellation.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:27 pm

Please tweet the gas cylinder issue to PMO. It can certainly be solved by reducing the size of cylinders. Gas and electricity subsidy for BPL should be considered.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:30 pm

I thought there was gas and electricity subsidy. Given as DBT - direct benefit transfer.. sent to their bank account. I can confirm that in KA it's paid.

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