The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

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KL Dubey
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by KL Dubey » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:25 am

^^^Agreed on all that. I am only tracking the poll results of 2019 versus 2014 to see the trends, and not concerned so much about the underlying reasons. Those can be debated for a long time.

As far as I am concerned, this election will be a clear message to politicians in terms of whether this electorate is capable of rewarding good work or not. If NaMo wins again, the message of "shape up or sit down" will be taken seriously by all those poltoos and other crooks who think that everything will be back to the old "happy hunting" days soon.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by SSundar » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:58 am

KL Dubey wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:25 am
As far as I am concerned, this election will be a clear message to politicians in terms of whether this electorate is capable of rewarding good work or not. If NaMo wins again, the message of "shape up or sit down" will be taken seriously by all those poltoos and other crooks who think that everything will be back to the old "happy hunting" days soon.
That is very true. If NaMo wins with even a simple majority, Congress and the other personality/dynasty will certainly get the message that the people want governance and not gimmicks. Congress is likely to chuck RaGa and go for PV. They will have to lose 2024 as well to throw the Maino family out and become a true democratic party.

One thing I am certain of. Whoever wins 2019 will also win 2024 because the true positive results of NaMo's reforms will only begin to show in 2019/20 and will last till 2024. Same as Vajpayee's reforms making MMS look good till 2009.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Yagnasri » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:59 am

If congress gets 12% votes in UP then BJP will get 80 seats. The 12% will be votes of BSP and SP and almost nil BJP votes. If it to be 12% lost of Memos need to vote for INC which is not going to happen. They will vote for Thugbahandhan only.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Chandragupta » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:57 am

KL Dubey wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:25 am
^^^Agreed on all that. I am only tracking the poll results of 2019 versus 2014 to see the trends, and not concerned so much about the underlying reasons. Those can be debated for a long time.

As far as I am concerned, this election will be a clear message to politicians in terms of whether this electorate is capable of rewarding good work or not. If NaMo wins again, the message of "shape up or sit down" will be taken seriously by all those poltoos and other crooks who think that everything will be back to the old "happy hunting" days soon.
This is a test for the electorate whether they are intelligent enough to think about their future instead of caste/bottle of liquor. I am not sure they are capable of looking past free biryani/liquor/cooker/sari imho.

This is make or break for Indian civilization. If Modi loses, I doubt we will ever become a developed country even in 50-60 years, we will forever be a divided low-mid income country infested with jehadis and EJs.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by arshyam » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:49 am

Looks like the middle class vote is not going to step out during the election. This budget was widely expected to offer a few crumbs for them after waiting for years with bated breath, but no can do, apparently. All we got was a word of thanks, which costs nothing, and means even less.

Modi is on his own.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Pratyush » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:13 am

The tax exempt income bracket is now RS 5 lakhs. A good relief to the middle class. I am sure.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:38 am

the budget is ok, but should have been much better. The brackets are now messed up

0-5 = 0%
5-10=20%
10+=30%

they think people earning 10lac in salary are rich, and the 5-10lack earners are "well off" .. all the while businessmen keep crores untaxed.

No wonder people go out of their way to avoid paying tax/GST on everything from TVs to holidays.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:20 am

JohnTitor wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:38 am
the budget is ok, but should have been much better. The brackets are now messed up

0-5 = 0%
5-10=20%
10+=30%

they think people earning 10lac in salary are rich, and the 5-10lack earners are "well off" .. all the while businessmen keep crores untaxed.

No wonder people go out of their way to avoid paying tax/GST on everything from TVs to holidays.
especially pathetic, as the govt now considers an annual income of 8 lakhs to mean economically backward for reservation in the EWS category for the poor of the upper caste folks.

But, there is no satisfying the very greedy middle class, give it whatever concession you want but a majority will still crib.

The ONLY way for these guys to be recognized as a vote bank power is for them to actually go out and vote, which most of these aholes just will not do.

so, the policy is made to suit slum dwellers as they constitute a solid and credible vote bank, feared by the politicos whereas the middle class simply has no clout because they will not take the trouble to vote.

parties exploit this by purposely scheduling the voting on a Friday or Monday or a day before or after a public holiday and our middle class heroes will pack up the kids, the family dog and head out for a three day holiday at some shitty resort rather than do their constitutional duty by voting.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by ashokk » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:41 am

Budget 2019: What Modi, Rahul did in Lok Sabha during speech
Goyal also made two reference to Bollywood flick 'Uri.' "It was fun watching Uri. There was a lot of josh (energy) in the movie (Uri movie mein jo maza aaya. Jo Josh tha)," Goyal said while mentioning the future agenda. This prompted many members, including law minister Ravi Shankar Prasad to deliver the movie's dialogue "How is the josh". :mrgreen:

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:52 am

SSundar wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:24 am

That is a tall assumption to make. The din of the narrative is much louder than Modi's own voice now. The ecosystem will try to keep it that way. Just when "Con Air" landed in Delhi, out comes the NSSO Job Report. The ecosystem is trying somewhat successfully to convince fence sitters that Modi is covering up a lot of failures. The fact that a sizable number of people believe that is clear when you watch many Twitter threads.
I agree, everything including the polls by so called pundits is just that - assumption.

However, I feel that Twitter is not a real reflection of the Indian society as a whole. What percentage of the average voters use it? In contrast, YT is much more popular simply because of its content - the entire library of Bollywood, Hollywood and television in your pocket.

If you go by the comments section on any of the news/debate shows, the majority, sometimes overwhelmingly so are pro-Modi. Even in their broken English, the feeling comes across. Granted this too is a very unscientific and limited analysis, not to mention an assumption once again, IMHO it is a useful if crude assessment of the mood of the public - at least the section that is semi-literate and capable of using a smart phone.

The average Indian voter may be poor and uneducated, not able to participate in Twitter threads or YT comments, but the wife who got the gas stove, the man who now has electricity in his house, the daughter that now has the comfort of a home toilet - surely these people can see for themselves who has done a better job in 5 years compared to those who did nothing for over 50 yrs. Unless compelled by caste/religion they would vote for 'vikas'.

But as I said, this could all just be a pipe-dream and we may well see an anti-Modi wave sweep the nation into a hell from which it would not recover for decades.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:41 pm

arshyam, if you are more than 10 lakhs you are in a very small minority of a few million in a country of 1.3 billion. That is how poor India is. Even then since exemption limit has been increased. It will cover 95% of IT payers but will not affect much if your salary is say 50 lakhs. How many in that bracket actually go out and vote or even care what the tax bracket is. Modi has covered most of the voting base with this budget. Will be interesting to see the coming opinion polls. In 2014 it started hardening near actual polls.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by KL Dubey » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:38 pm

^^^I agree regarding the outrageous sense of entitlement. In KL it seems a majority prefers Pappu as PM, which is a clear indicator of their intelligence and nationalism. I have not seen a state in which the entitlement level is higher than in KL.

And then of course there are the so called BJP supporters who will crib about almost anything that NaMo does. Even if he wins 400+ seats, i can bet my last dollah and rupee that these guys will be cribbing away at something or other for the next 5 years. And god forbid if he doesnt get full majority...the "i told you so" level will reach a crescendo. Totally wrong approach to life...should learn from NaMo instead.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:57 pm

Sorry for my lousy analogy, but just as Indian batsman in Hamilton, NewZealand were on a super high and thought just swinging their bats will work in all conditions, Thunder Boult struck and bludgeoned their over-confidence; likewise, ModiJi's budgetary surgical strike punctured Pappu's balls and sobered him up a tad. He was getting too uncouth of late :-).
Last edited by crams on Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:06 pm

KL Dubey wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:38 pm
^^^I agree regarding the outrageous sense of entitlement. In KL it seems a majority prefers Pappu as PM, which is a clear indicator of their intelligence and nationalism.
Hate to say it, but being a south Indian myself, believe me when I say that large swathes of South Indians, be it from Abrahamic religions, or beef-eating Hindus, live in a cookoo land of their own with nothing but contempt for Hindi, North Indians, Brahmins etc, devoid of any sense nationalism whatsoever. BJP needs to be in power for 25+ for Indians across the board, except a bunch of die-hard Abrahamic separatists and Dravidians and Naxals who are beyond pale, to develop a sense of nationalism along the lines of western countries.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Singha » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:28 pm

lot of them have desire/plan to emigrate to australia/canada/gulf. many actually have PR for aus/canada but just waiting for opportunity. then they carry on via internet in same vein.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:48 pm

Lol? If you earn 10 lacs+, you are a small minority? That’s a joke. If that was the case, pray tell us why property across the country is selling at thousands per square foot. Even in a place like Mysore, a decent property will cost you a crore. Yet, there is no shortage of buyers.

The numbers show them to be a minority because of all the creative tax dodging that happens. High taxes only encourage more dodging. And rightly so.

The problem is this. The honest earners have no choice and are stuck with the system. While those who truly earn less than 10lacs get all sorts of quotas and subsidies. Farmers who earn crores are untaxed and get loads of freebies, farmers who earn peanuts get loans which don’t have to be repaid (ultimately). Those who run businesses have many many ways of dodging tax, from distributing their 50 lac income through many family members to taking their earnings home in cash.

I’ve seen it all. As was demonstrated during the 2018 elections, relying on the freebie crowd to vote for you is a bad strategy because at the end of the day they will vote for whoever gives them goodies at the voting booth.

All the government has done is reduce the tax burden by 12.5k per year, yes you read that right. Because 2.5-5 lac bracket was taxed at 5%, so eliminating that bracket has saved the tax payer a whopping 12.5k a year! And that, my friend, is a joke.
Last edited by JohnTitor on Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:57 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:52 pm

crams wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:57 pm
Sorry for my lousy analogy, but just as Indian batsman in Hamilton, NewZealand were on a super high and thought just swinging their bats will work in all conditions, Thunder Boult struck and bludgeoned their over-confidence; likewise, ModiJi's budgetary surgical strike punctured Pappu's balls and sobered him up a tad. He was getting too uncouth of late :-).
Not sure if I got this right. With the new budget, which some people here are saying is 'not enough', does it mean that the vast majority of Indians will pay little or no income tax? If a sizable section of the lower middle-class and the poor were paying taxes before and now they will not have to, does that not mean a huge windfall for them? Much better than the stupid promises made by the Big Chief of the opposition?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by SSundar » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:20 pm

JohnTitor wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:48 pm
All the government has done is reduce the tax burden by 12.5k per year, yes you read that right. Because 2.5-5 lac bracket was taxed at 5%, so eliminating that bracket has saved the tax payer a whopping 12.5k a year! And that, my friend, is a joke.
Saar, please see this thread. Should answer all your points. That Rs. 12.5K "joke" is above the ANNUAL income of a sizable portion of our population.

https://twitter.com/YRDeshmukh/status/1 ... 4648053760

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:26 pm

JohnTitor, usually I agree with you, but on this, you are being way too negative. I think you are better off either NOTA or embracing Pappu & Co. I don't think ModiJi will ever satisfy you :-).

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Triank » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:07 pm

Primus wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:07 pm
Muns wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:48 am

I'm saddened to see this whole episode regarding Manohar Parikkar. Rahul actions have absolutely disgusted me with regard to trying to take advantage of a sick man. There is no dearth that he will bend over to try and scream from the Congress bin, to try and create manufactured BS. Manohar Parikkar to my mind has been the best defense minister, there ever was. He was quick and efficient, and well loved by all. It is under his tenure as well that the surgical strikes took place. He saw the implementation as well of OROP.
He fast forwarded modernization on war footing including getting the ultralight howitzers from the US and giving the green light for the Arjun MK2 tanks at 118 of them.

Not just that but when BJP and Modi needed him to drop being the defense minister he ran to Goa and became chief minister again. I only wish that I had graced his presence once. In that I am quite upset to see him with an NG tube needing decompression with regards to his ongoing pancreatic cancer. Unfortunately advanced pancreatic cancer supposedly as he is diagnosed with is quite aggressive.
It would be hard to strike for all of us in the next few months as we see his progression. India could lose two defense ministers this year.

I only hope that the law of karma comes around to give Rahul a fitting reply to what I consider his most disgusting action yet. :facepalm:

Parrikarji, Keep well and know that you still embolden us all with your courage!
Me too. Up until now I had thought of RaGa as a not very bright politician who was lost in the campaign perhaps, not know what he was saying or doing, but basically with at least a modicum of ethics. After this it is apparent that he is as rotten as they come, with nothing but power in his mind. This was planned and executed with care, and once again, I doubt very much it was his own idea, his handlers must have thought this out, but then again, perhaps not quite so thoroughly, because the fallout is sure to hurt more than help.

What a terrible act by somebody who has aspirations to become the leader of our great nation.
the subsequent tweet that he addressed to parrikar ji, do the words have his signature to them? i dont think so. who's tutoring him? steve jarding, perhaps?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Triank » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:27 pm

Primus wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:52 am
SSundar wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:24 am

That is a tall assumption to make. The din of the narrative is much louder than Modi's own voice now. The ecosystem will try to keep it that way. Just when "Con Air" landed in Delhi, out comes the NSSO Job Report. The ecosystem is trying somewhat successfully to convince fence sitters that Modi is covering up a lot of failures. The fact that a sizable number of people believe that is clear when you watch many Twitter threads.
If you go by the comments section on any of the news/debate shows, the majority, sometimes overwhelmingly so are pro-Modi. Even in their broken English, the feeling comes across. Granted this too is a very unscientific and limited analysis, not to mention an assumption once again, IMHO it is a useful if crude assessment of the mood of the public - at least the section that is semi-literate and capable of using a smart phone.

The average Indian voter may be poor and uneducated, not able to participate in Twitter threads or YT comments, but the wife who got the gas stove, the man who now has electricity in his house, the daughter that now has the comfort of a home toilet - surely these people can see for themselves who has done a better job in 5 years compared to those who did nothing for over 50 yrs. Unless compelled by caste/religion they would vote for 'vikas'.

But as I said, this could all just be a pipe-dream and we may well see an anti-Modi wave sweep the nation into a hell from which it would not recover for decades.
saar, just watch the survey videos of indie hindi news channels (shining india, nation 24, etc). you will *not* be surprised!

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:58 pm

Triank wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:27 pm

saar, just watch the survey videos of indie hindi news channels (shining india, nation 24, etc). you will *not* be surprised!
What are those surveys saying? Please post a summary if you can for those of us who have not watched those channels.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:26 am

Triank wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:27 pm

saar, just watch the survey videos of indie hindi news channels (shining india, nation 24, etc). you will *not* be surprised!
I generally watch both Hindi and English channels (except NDTV) for the debate shows, news and 'surveys'. In most of these so-called surveys of the aam aadmi, the majority is indeed pro-Modi. It appears that these are not paid actors, but I may be wrong. There was one I saw this week where Anjana Kashyap goes to Connaught Place in Delhi completely unannounced and does an impromptu debate there with Patra and a Congoon. Almost everyone in the crowd that she interviewed, with one or two exceptions was pro-Modi.

I don't know about the channels you mention, have not come across them on YT.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:27 am

John, yes that is how poor the people of socialist, secular India is. Those buying one crore apartments are a small minority. check the stats for how many people have income more than 10 lakhs in India and compare it to the overall population. If you add the total tax exemptions it comes to 9850000. Which is a very big amount in India for an overwhelming majority of people.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Deans » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:40 am

Supratik wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:41 pm
arshyam, if you are more than 10 lakhs you are in a very small minority of a few million in a country of 1.3 billion. That is how poor India is. Even then since exemption limit has been increased. It will cover 95% of IT payers but will not affect much if your salary is say 50 lakhs. How many in that bracket actually go out and vote or even care what the tax bracket is. Modi has covered most of the voting base with this budget. Will be interesting to see the coming opinion polls. In 2014 it started hardening near actual polls.
Yes. I'm glad someone said this. Most taxpayers in India have a taxable income under 5 lac. If the current proposals stand, the majority of
taxpayers are no longer liable to pay tax. I think this is a retrograde step (the 5% tax between 2.5 and 5 lac was already the lowest in the world) as the middle class will have an even lower sense of ownership of the country.
The Rs 10 lac ceiling for 10% reservation is for total household income (admittedly very difficult to figure out). Its unlikely that a job seeker will have ANY income.

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