The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

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chetak
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:24 pm

twitter

Recipe for winning an Indian Election:

Populism: 30%
Socialism: 10%
Communalism: 15%
Casteism: 10%
Magnetism: 10%
Pessimism: 10%
Optimism: 5%
Activism: 5%
Journalism: 5%

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by srikumar » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:24 pm

^^^chetak: to win Indian elections just one 'ism' is enough: schism.


John Titor,
I dont know hanumadu's position but KL Dubey's position seems to be that a negative message repeated repeatedly : ) (there, I a coined a phrase) has its own momentum, and generates further negativity. Note his comment about the incongruity of someone castigating Modi 'in front of everyone' and then voting for him afterall. The strong criticism itself might turn some fence-sitters away from him. ( I dont know how much this forum gets read by public- probably not much, so I dont know that the words posted here matter a whole lot, to be frank). Doubtless your position has been articulated many times in the past few pages, so people get it. At least some do.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:41 pm

Sri Kumar

Fair enough and point noted. I have no qualms with what you said. I am of the view that not many read this forum, so what people here say or think hardly matters.. twitter matters more. So yes, when I interact with people in real life I make sure they see the facts.

But to address the issue, one has to first accept the issue and understand it. Simply being an echo chamber and spinning everything positively will only lead to ignoring the warning signs

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by dinesh_kumar » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:47 pm

^ People, pls no green on green.All of us are from BRF, and respect each other. (incl. Lilo, who refers to me as "Coomar", ha ha,, like some Trinidad dude who wears a top hat !)

> A Gujarati man, with massive support, won a popular mandate against Congress and all their sins, a 2/3rd s majority from the entire Indian electorate.

> He promised massive jobs/ employment,and promised to make Congress pay for their sins.

> The electorate got tired of his gimmicks after 4 years, incl. the middle class with his forced prohibition of alcohol.

This was Moraji Desai. People got fed up with him and his stupidity and apathy, that they forced him to resign prematurely.

Sadly, Namo is following in his footsteps.

> And pls stop blocking 'ahem ahem' sites on the internet, if you're reading this, its really none of your business. And there's a Court order saying so too !

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:05 pm

Modi cannot be compared with Morarji desai for several reasons. And most of what Modi has done is out there in the public domain including BRF.

But I agree with Dubeyji's view that too much negativity has its own momentum. Those who want Modi back should correct his fallacies but not project negativity.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:28 pm

Agree, no way Morarji Desai could be compared with Modi. The former was hellbent on pushing his own brand of whiskey on everyone, along with many other things, as much a megalomaniac as IG, he won primarily because of the preceding Emergency declared by IG and forced sterilizations etc. He was a peacenik, like Gujral and set our security apparatus back considerably. Finally, though an RSS man (not sure about this), he wasn't really from the Jan Sangh.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:35 pm

He was never a RSS man I believe.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by hanumadu » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:00 pm

Perhaps, Modi should not have gone after the congress eco system so hard. He is forcing them to go for broke and they will not stop at anything to come back to power. But then again, let people know the true nature of the beast.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by rampy » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:13 pm

hanumadu wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:00 pm
Perhaps, Modi should not have gone after the congress eco system so hard. He is forcing them to go for broke and they will not stop at anything to come back to power. But then again, let people know the true nature of the beast.
Wow up untill last page it was Modi did not deliver on promise and damad is out, blah blah... now he should not gone after Congress....Man decide which side you want
But 1 think is clear from this election Mahagadbandhan is in mess, CBN and Bibi jodi in docks. They were dissing Pappu and forming a strong group now lets see what happens

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Indrad » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:17 pm

in era of competitive ch*****pa and race down to bottom BJP is announcing waivers as well in states one after another. Gujarat, Assam follow congress suits.
India is well down to path of Venezuela.
so far
Bijli bill
Farmer Loan
Water bill
all r being waived one after the other.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Indrad » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:19 pm

this is very good insight into why BJP return will need well rounded effort from modi & state leaders, his charishma alone wont pull through, perception is more important even more important is ache din feel has to come from people no amount of statistics can establish that on dash board
https://www.dailyo.in/politics/2019-gen ... 28392.html

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Sunny » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:19 pm

Don't BJP leaders communicate with each other or even think before they act?

On the same day that Jaitley and others raised the Kamal Nath/1984 issue Shivraj Singh Chouhan at the swearing in ceremony does this:

Image

Sure there's no need to be a bad loser and sulk but why go so far and give your opponents a photo op like this?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by hanumadu » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:28 pm

rampy wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:13 pm
hanumadu wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:00 pm
Perhaps, Modi should not have gone after the congress eco system so hard. He is forcing them to go for broke and they will not stop at anything to come back to power. But then again, let people know the true nature of the beast.
Wow up untill last page it was Modi did not deliver on promise and damad is out, blah blah... now he should not gone after Congress....Man decide which side you want
But 1 think is clear from this election Mahagadbandhan is in mess, CBN and Bibi jodi in docks. They were dissing Pappu and forming a strong group now lets see what happens
I don't know who you are confusing me with, but I never said Modi did not deliver on anything. I have only advocated patience on all fronts and am extremely satisfied with Modi's performance.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:29 pm

Here's the thing. Most of these Maha Thugs are simply out to get the maximum power for themselves, they just cannot stand to be upstaged by one of their own. Hence the coalition would never stand up for too long. The congress by itself is incapable (despite the recent victories) of absolute majority so the song and dance will go on.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vriksh » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:10 pm

This is the kind of Qtiyapa which makes hardened BJP supporters swear in frustration. They have completely imbibed the kool-aid of "be a good little yindoo".
Sunny wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:19 pm
Don't BJP leaders communicate with each other or even think before they act?

On the same day that Jaitley and others raised the Kamal Nath/1984 issue Shivraj Singh Chouhan at the swearing in ceremony does this:

Image

Sure there's no need to be a bad loser and sulk but why go so far and give your opponents a photo op like this?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vriksh » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:20 pm

Speaking for myself, the sheer angst at seeing BJP make stupid mistakes and treat its own core votebanks with indifference and contempt is what gets to me. I am worried that will cause election loss, plain and simple and over a longer period, the BJP will become Congress part-B. And for the RW, we will have thug parties that pretend to be RW but are basically criminal, Muthalik sort of guys who then set us up for a renewed push by the EJs.

Having said that, I have nothing but absolute contempt for the over emotional dolts who thought of their caste first, their parochial reasons, their private freebies getting curtailed and voted for the INC.

Modi is a once in a lifetime sort of leader. He has held off Pakistan and its terror apparatus, brought the Maoists to heel, broken the nexus between crony capitalists and the PSU banks plus the political apparatus via demonetization, made remarkable progress in social indices like stopping/reducing open defecation, bringing electricity all across India, cleaning the Ganga.. the scale of the man's ambition and what he has delivered is incredible. He is a true son of mother India, and we should all- and I say this as one who is usually completely skeptical of political leaders - be thankful God, wherever He/She is, chose this man at such a juncture to come and bail our country out of its morass.

An Indian PM, with his heart worshipping at the Ganga arti, visiting temples - with none of the BS antics pappu pulls.. it has been 70 odd years and we finally have a son of the soil PM in power (apart from a few brief interludes from Shastri, PVNR et al).

I am just very concerned though that the rest of the BJP remains in its merry, chalta-hain attitude and hence we are facing this challenge. Add to this the extremely selfish and corrupt Indian public, which wears its Hindu identity like a napkin and does everything adharmic (jokers like the CPI-Moron posting on this forum for instance), we are in for a tough time.

I hope Modi sheds his idealism and gives up a strictly run Indian economic engine for some short term pragmatic measures. And also BJP et al stop taking Hindu votes for granted. That is a serious long term issue. They have to be as ruthless as the INC-Left are.


JohnTitor wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:41 pm
Sri Kumar

Fair enough and point noted. I have no qualms with what you said. I am of the view that not many read this forum, so what people here say or think hardly matters.. twitter matters more. So yes, when I interact with people in real life I make sure they see the facts.

But to address the issue, one has to first accept the issue and understand it. Simply being an echo chamber and spinning everything positively will only lead to ignoring the warning signs

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vriksh » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:31 pm

dinesh_kumar wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:47 pm
^ People, pls no green on green.All of us are from BRF, and respect each other. (incl. Lilo, who refers to me as "Coomar", ha ha,, like some Trinidad dude who wears a top hat !)

> A Gujarati man, with massive support, won a popular mandate against Congress and all their sins, a 2/3rd s majority from the entire Indian electorate.

> He promised massive jobs/ employment,and promised to make Congress pay for their sins.

> The electorate got tired of his gimmicks after 4 years, incl. the middle class with his forced prohibition of alcohol.

This was Moraji Desai. People got fed up with him and his stupidity and apathy, that they forced him to resign prematurely.

Sadly, Namo is following in his footsteps.

> And pls stop blocking 'ahem ahem' sites on the internet, if you're reading this, its really none of your business. And there's a Court order saying so too !
To compare Modi to Desai, is the heights of pointlessness. The electorate respects Modi, its just that many are selfish and want short term gains. That you can't recognize this speaks volumes. And what does being Gujarati or not have to do with anything?

Modi has undertaken a massive social improvement effort - swachh bharat, electrification, cleanliness drive at railway stations, LPG distribution, skill India.. he is literally moving huge swathes of the Indian population to reasonable living standards making them more integrated into the society and preventing social chaos in the process

Economy - demonetization, GST, the crackdown on crony capitalists/bank loan abuse, the action against extremely powerful tax evaders who can literally swing elections.. again, a complete turnaway from the politics of appeasement that existed between the INC and the corporate establishment
Make in India, indian defence manufacture - all have received a huge fillip, improving operational efficiency in the railways, Air India, PSUs.. no easy job. Stopping corruption at the highest levels

National security - stopping the runaway impact of terror attacks, train bombs, city attacks..fixing OROP, holding both TSP and PRC back, getting high impact purcases like Rafale cleared, backing Tejas, stopped NGO funding for EJ conversions despite severe US pressure..

Diplomacy.. got most countries to take India seriously, stood up for Indian interests time and again, has created a complex web of support networks even in Islamic countries giving us oil concessions..

And all this without once bringing his caste into notice, not once running down other Hindus or Muslims or Christians.. he is a remarkable guy with an idealistic heart.

If anything, I am more worried about his idealism as versus being pragmatic and ruthless with crooks in the indian left and media.

I mean are you even serious in comparing Modi to such a joker like Morarji? Do you think folks here or on BRF don't know what Modi has done already.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vriksh » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:41 pm

Supratik wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:04 pm
It seems there will be a full budget in Feb, 2019. Also there is likely to be a BJP meet in Jan, 2019 on Ram mandir ordinance. Hope they go for it.
Yes I do. Electorate appreciates strength. By putting a Ram Mandir ordinance many guys esp. in North India will vote BJP. The minorities will never vote BJP in any appreciable numbers anyhow.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vriksh » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:47 pm

hanumadu wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:08 pm
This is exactly why the better off middle class and salaried people should make some sacrifices. What sacrifice can you ask from people who have nothing to sacrifice or who are barely subsisting?

We are not free to take care of our own security without external influence. During NDA1, India banned some western doctors working as missionaries in tribal areas but in reality they were fomenting naxalism. There was an international outcry and they had to rescind the order. People who say christians are getting a free run, muslims are getting a free run should understand this. The path to India's emancipation lies in economic and technological independence. Without it any amount of Hindutva is unsustainable. People are too emotional or impatient to understand this. The long term damage they are causing to Hindus and India for short term gains is immense. Slow and steady wins the race.
This fails the logic test because middle class and salaried people are already making substantial sacrifices and have been doing so for a long time. BJP ultimately needs to go after the crony capitalists, the bollywood film mafia, and huge swathes of people who are rolling in illicit cash but pay nil taxes. Demonetization was an important first step but the risk is always that pushing crooks like Mallya, Nirav Modi too hard will mean the fatcats will fund the INC-left nexus campaign and Mahathugbandan. This is where Modi needs to shed his idealism and use the GOI apparatus same way as INC did.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Sunny » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:40 am

At the moment it’s all guesswork but nevertheless even if we take the numbers below as a worst case scenario for the BJP then we’re headed for some chaotic times with a lot of power in the hands of regional parties.

If India’s 2014-2018 State Elections Were The General Elections...

https://www.bloombergquint.com/election ... gs.ITbv_7Y

Image

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Dumal » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:05 am

^^^
This is depressingly similar to or worse than 2004 and quite possible as an outcome. The DMK openly inviting Pappu to lead the MTB would all be based on calculations like this. It will take some very smart navigating to overcome this.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by RajaRaja » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:15 am

^^
If SP/BSP/Congress arithmetic works like it did the bypolls of Gorakhpur, Phulpur, and Kairana then BJP will find it hard pressed to win more than 25 seats instead of the 62 listed.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:14 am

I hope the above #s are not true. Boy if BJP can't even get 150 (assuming 62 in UP is optimistic), it will be a tragic downfall. There are still 4+ months to go, and in politics, this can be an eternity. Lets hope things turn around.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Schmidt » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:37 am

hanumadu wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:43 am

Good luck middle class. You were cribbing for a 10,000/year tax break. Now watch your and your kids' future flushed down the toilet. Enjoy.

Increased inflation, increased EMIs, poor infrastructure, poor higher education, no jobs, love jihad...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Does the BJP have a coherent economic policy that is well enunciated and differentiated from the Congress ?

That's a rhetorical question ( answer is a NO )

Take farm loan waivers - much is made about the Congress poll promise in MP etc
But what about the BJP - they too announced a mega farm loan waiver in UP , also in Maharashtra
Now they have announced the same for Orissa

So do they have a unified nationwide approach towards farm loan waivers ? NO

Then why crib if the Congress played their cards smartly and won


NaMo thundered in the Lok Sabha against the MNREGA and mocked Congress - then turned around and INCREASED the outlays for the same scheme

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Mort Walker » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:45 am

From Dr. Praveen Patil:
Just 1.8% swing in MP & Rajasthan would have changed the outcome.
In Gujarat, 1.3% swing would have given 25 additional seats to BJP.
In Karnataka, 0.6% swing would have won a majority.

In effect, some 8-10 lakh votes have changed the entire narrative in the run up to 2019!

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