The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

The Archive forum serves as a repository for topics that have been closed from the other forums. They serve as a database for future reference.
Locked
JohnTitor
BGR Member
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:09 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:56 pm

crams, sorry .. attacking pappu is fine, only if it is related to recent events..talking about things that happened 60yrs ago is pointless.. noone cares.

you and i know the country will take decades to undo what his daddy and grand daddy did, but that is not something the man on street cares about. Besides, the man on street asks.. you have been running the country for 4.5 years, what have you done?

again, remember, its not about what actually has changed, but what people FEEL has changed. its all about perception, reality is irrelevant. think rafale, think farmer suicides, think 1000lac suit .. reality is different in all these cases, but perception is what gets votes

Supratik
Forum Moderator
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:50 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:58 pm

He should just say what he did and humbly request for one more term to make things better. If there are loose comments by opposition he can attack them but talking about what happened in the past will no longer bring votes.

JohnTitor
BGR Member
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:09 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:06 pm

another problem people here are not understanding is the disconnect between centre and state.. modi said things will change, gst, demonetisation etc .. but what is it i on the street see? i still have to bribe my way around everywhere.. for a licence, for a building permit, cops regularly harass people by putting up fake signs and signals that disappear after the month ends, roads near my house has a million potholes, i don't get electricity 24 hours a day even though power minister says there is excess power, i don't get water 24/7, traffic is getting worse everyday, i have to pay 10 people bribes to run my business .. and this when the PM talks about "ease of business" (yes i've actually heard this one), income tax has effectively risen because it hasn't changed in line with inflation and so on .. THAT is what man on street ultimately cares about, not defence, not foreign policy not who's marriage PM attended and so on.

now, you and i know that some of what i mentioned are state subjects and centre couldn't do much even if it wanted to.. but i'm a stupid voter i can't bloody tell my head from my @ss .. you said you would fix it, then why isn't it fixed??? then comes mr. pappu who says he'll give me a couple bottles, a sari for my wife and a cooker for my mom and some spending cash .. who'd you think i'd vote for?

the indian electorate is stupid, not "wise" as some "ahead of the curve BRF/BGF" persons think. They voted for kejriwala twice and i knew he was a fraud before he was even elected.. indians dont research about their candidates.. don't look at their track record.. their achievements etc.. they'll vote for anyone who gives them instant gratification and promises them the moon (which as far as many of the plebs will tell you, modi did)

crams
Forum Moderator
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:28 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:57 pm

There is always something to look forward to. Lets wait for SC's judjment on Rafale tomorrow. Till now, I thought Rafale was not an issue at all, but who knows, maybe Pappu's "chowkidar chor hai" cheap lie had an impact, and this become even more viscous and vociferous if SC judgement goes his way even marginally.

crams
Forum Moderator
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:28 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:10 pm

Guys, on another note, I am truly appalled at that vulgar display of hedonism on display at Ambani's daughter's wedding. Even though its a private affair, its a truly disgusting spectacle, that kind of ostentatious display of wealth in a dirt poor country like India. I hope ModiJi did not touch that shit with a mile-long pole, and if he did, he is giving another stick to Pappu to beat him with. But I am sure Ambnai has some Congoons there too :-).

Brahma Chellaney tweeted that Ambanis are big donors for Clinton foundation. Couple that with Narayan Murthy filling the coffers of BIF people like Sheldon Pollock, and you wonder if there is any nationalism and pride left among our rich and mighty. I supported Hilary Clinton against Trump Chutia, but I am appalled that she and her Jihadi side-kick Huma are among the dignitaries. She should have turned the invite down and shown some self respect. I am not surprised though. Americans love pomp and splendors showed on them by Turd world as white knights while mouthing useless human rights and other concern for the poor BS.

KL Dubey
BGR Member
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by KL Dubey » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:53 pm

Seems like the thread has been possessed by the few who simply want to vent all their frustrations with Modi sarkar and to offer new prescriptions.

I am not saying all your points are incorrect, but I guess you are aware that posting all your thoughts here will have zero impact on anybody in the goremint. It is simply batting thoughts around in an online forum.

All parties have their ways to pick up the mood of the electorate, and i dont think that checking BGR is one of them. I hope you are sending in your thoughts somewhere else that is more effective and useful.

Post away!

Primus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:20 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:52 pm

There is way too much dhoti-shiver going on here folks. Yes, it is a setback, but it is not the end of the world. We need to have faith and believe that the leadership is savvy enough to make the necessary changes. The cadres are driven by ideology and not by fake promises of loot.

Indrad
BGR Oldie
Posts: 738
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:37 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Indrad » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:07 pm

precise analysis: why is middle class going away from Modi:
https://www.firstpost.com/politics/midd ... 23681.html
The urban middle class saw in Modi a leader who could fulfil their aspirations and were willing to hedge their hopes on him. But there is now an overriding impression among them that the prime minister — and it really boils down to him owing to the 'strong leader' image that Modi has carved for himself — has taken them for granted, perhaps driven by a belief that they have no other alternative. This has resulted in a sense of alienation, and this sense of alienation has deepened gradually over the past four years.

Firstpost spoke to a cross section of tax consultants, IT professionals, small business owners and salaried professionals. Nearly all of them had voted for Modi in 2014. This sample size is too random and small to qualify as a dipstick, but the near identical views point to some interesting takeaways.

The salaried professionals feel deceived by the fact that the Modi government has not touched Section 80C, related to deductions, or income tax slabs beyond tinkering at the edges and has, instead, piled on the cesses, an act that has been interpreted as "penalising the backers for their support". This lack of even a token of appreciation has aggravated the adverse sentiment against the Modi government, and many are inclined to vote against the BJP just to "teach the party a lesson".

Small business owners are aggrieved that demonetisation forced a change in their operations, and that grievance has been heightened due to the patchy implementation of the Goods and Services Tax (GST). Many in this category are grappling with the complexity of the process to file returns and are ending up swelling the kitty of chartered accountants, who seem to be the only tribe not complaining.

While the GST has failed to simplify the process for traders and business owners, it has not been able to bring down the taxes enough for consumers, many of whom feel that it is unfair to tax white goods such as washing machines, refrigerators, storage water heaters, etc. so high (at 18 percent), when these are necessities, not luxuries. There is also palpable discontent over high fuel prices and high interest rates, combined with low returns in small savings schemes.

Many of these impressions could be removed from reality, but that doesn't make it any less real for the voter, and consequently, political parties. If misinformation is, in part, causing dissatisfaction among voters, then the government has failed in its messaging. It is not the voters' failure.

These anecdotal impressions do have some backing from number crunchers. As Kumar and Gupta point out in their Livemint article, the Modi government had some sops for almost every interest group in the country except the middle class, who, instead, of any gratification in the forms of "tax cuts or sops, has had to contend with higher cesses".

If Modi had hedged his bet on more patience from the middle class, that seems to be running out

Mort Walker
BGR Member
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:14 pm
Location: The Rings Around Uranus

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Mort Walker » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:23 am

madhub wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:06 am
Vikas wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:26 am
RJ: Gehlot
MP: Kamalnath
what happens to people who voted for youth leader? :rotfl:
They don't bring money bags with them. Kamalnath and Gehlot certainly do. Kamalnath makes Digvijay look like an honest esteemed statesman.
WTF have the people done. :facepalm:

Mort Walker
BGR Member
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:14 pm
Location: The Rings Around Uranus

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Mort Walker » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:29 am

Primus wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:52 pm
There is way too much dhoti-shiver going on here folks. Yes, it is a setback, but it is not the end of the world. We need to have faith and believe that the leadership is savvy enough to make the necessary changes. The cadres are driven by ideology and not by fake promises of loot.
Nope. 2019 GE is lost. Modi and the BJP need to pass as many laws they need because after May 2019 it will be Kangress and Mahachorbandhan with no clear majority.

Mort Walker
BGR Member
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:14 pm
Location: The Rings Around Uranus

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Mort Walker » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:32 am

Anyone who does not pay income tax must have their voting rights removed. Too many useless, uneducated scum in public who deserve disenfranchisement. Voting is a privilege, not a right.

hanumadu
BGR Oldie
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:20 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by hanumadu » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:49 am

Indrad wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:07 pm
precise analysis: why is middle class going away from Modi:

These anecdotal impressions do have some backing from number crunchers. As Kumar and Gupta point out in their Livemint article, the Modi government had some sops for almost every interest group in the country except the middle class, who, instead, of any gratification in the forms of "tax cuts or sops, has had to contend with higher cesses".

If Modi had hedged his bet on more patience from the middle class, that seems to be running out
Sorry, what cesses Modi imposed? The cess is on income greater than 10 lakh. That's a very small amount of people I believe.
Now, the middle class will pay for unemployed and farm loan waiver and free electricity. Awesome choice.

JohnTitor
BGR Member
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:09 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:02 am

Mort, that's a great suggestion, but unfortunately not something that will happen anytime soon.

Hanumadu, middle class always paid for it.. makes no difference to them. Modi's schemes are also paid for by the same middle class. So the choice you state is moot. The argument may be how much good each of the schemes brings (Modi Vs sickulars) but unfortunately middle class, just like poor only asks what they get for it.

Meanwhile, morons like ghada-kari say things like this.. are Indian politicians stupid? Cause it seems that across the aisle, they can't keep their pie hole shut and say idiot time just to be noticed.


Give Mallya another chance


hanumadu
BGR Oldie
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:20 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by hanumadu » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:13 am

JohnTitor wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:02 am

Hanumadu, middle class always paid for it.. makes no difference to them. Modi's schemes are also paid for by the same middle class. So the choice you state is moot. The argument may be how much good each of the schemes brings (Modi Vs sickulars) but unfortunately middle class, just like poor only asks what they get for it.
Not true. Congress schemes are way more expensive from NREGA to loan waivers to now unemployment stipend. Congress is way more corrupt. It will not build things that will be of any benefit to middle class. There is no comparison. I am saying they are getting much more under Modi than under Congress. Let them find it the hard way. They seem to forget why they gave 44 to congress the hard way.

JohnTitor
BGR Member
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:09 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:27 am

hanumadu wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:13 am

Not true. Congress schemes are way more expensive from NREGA to loan waivers to now unemployment stipend. Congress is way more corrupt. It will not build things that will be of any benefit to middle class. There is no comparison. I am saying they are getting much more under Modi than under Congress. Let them find it the hard way. They seem to forget why they gave 44 to congress the hard way.
Absolutely right. But you are speaking from a societal POV.. the cost to society and country is huge. But cost to individual taxpayers isn't much more. Only thing is instead of traveling on a one lane dirt road they travel on a 6 lane highway with Modi (literally).. but I only see that highway if I have to go between states. My taxes when loot Mata was PM are the same as they are now.. there was more leakage but I couldn't care less because I am still paying the same amount.

Again, I'm not saying what you say is wrong, just that the perception doesn't match the truth. You have to think like an idiotic person if you want to understand how the voter thinks. Remember, key is "it's all about me me me me"

As far as posting here making no difference is concerned, something expressed by some members, that's absolutely true as well. Noone thinks Modi or Shah or gadha Kari will see the suggestions and do something about it. But by that token, there's no point in having a forum at all because it's all hot air with members thinking they are "ahead of the curve".. noone cares what anyone here says - one way or another. It's all time pass, and a place to feel heard.

Chandragupta
BGR Member
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:49 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Chandragupta » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:50 am

Indrad wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:07 pm
precise analysis: why is middle class going away from Modi:
https://www.firstpost.com/politics/midd ... 23681.html
The urban middle class saw in Modi a leader who could fulfil their aspirations and were willing to hedge their hopes on him. But there is now an overriding impression among them that the prime minister — and it really boils down to him owing to the 'strong leader' image that Modi has carved for himself — has taken them for granted, perhaps driven by a belief that they have no other alternative. This has resulted in a sense of alienation, and this sense of alienation has deepened gradually over the past four years.

Firstpost spoke to a cross section of tax consultants, IT professionals, small business owners and salaried professionals. Nearly all of them had voted for Modi in 2014. This sample size is too random and small to qualify as a dipstick, but the near identical views point to some interesting takeaways.

The salaried professionals feel deceived by the fact that the Modi government has not touched Section 80C, related to deductions, or income tax slabs beyond tinkering at the edges and has, instead, piled on the cesses, an act that has been interpreted as "penalising the backers for their support". This lack of even a token of appreciation has aggravated the adverse sentiment against the Modi government, and many are inclined to vote against the BJP just to "teach the party a lesson".

Small business owners are aggrieved that demonetisation forced a change in their operations, and that grievance has been heightened due to the patchy implementation of the Goods and Services Tax (GST). Many in this category are grappling with the complexity of the process to file returns and are ending up swelling the kitty of chartered accountants, who seem to be the only tribe not complaining.

While the GST has failed to simplify the process for traders and business owners, it has not been able to bring down the taxes enough for consumers, many of whom feel that it is unfair to tax white goods such as washing machines, refrigerators, storage water heaters, etc. so high (at 18 percent), when these are necessities, not luxuries. There is also palpable discontent over high fuel prices and high interest rates, combined with low returns in small savings schemes.

Many of these impressions could be removed from reality, but that doesn't make it any less real for the voter, and consequently, political parties. If misinformation is, in part, causing dissatisfaction among voters, then the government has failed in its messaging. It is not the voters' failure.

These anecdotal impressions do have some backing from number crunchers. As Kumar and Gupta point out in their Livemint article, the Modi government had some sops for almost every interest group in the country except the middle class, who, instead, of any gratification in the forms of "tax cuts or sops, has had to contend with higher cesses".

If Modi had hedged his bet on more patience from the middle class, that seems to be running out
I was shouting from rooftops om BRF's GDF that traders & SME owners were howling at DeMo & GST and I was asked 'kitna gaya'.

There was just too much disruption in too little time and it went the other way for the GoI. Let us be honest, Indians are not East Asians or Americans that they will work by a system, we are corrupt, lazy & freeloaders and we don't want anyone to disturb us when we are eating the pie someone else paid for.

These steps should have been taken over 10 years while BJP consolidated the Hindu votebase further with RJB, 35A and promoting SME sector which was & still remains the largest job making sector in the country, perhaps with easier access to capital & lesser formalities.

Chandrasekaran
BGR Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:42 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Chandrasekaran » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:31 am

SC dismisses all plea's for a court monitored probe in Rafale deal.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 085636.cms

Personally I feel that this *IS* going to further boost the image of the PM.

Aditya_V
BGR Member
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:26 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Aditya_V » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:37 am

So what INC won the election, a new issue will be created before the next elections.

Raj Malhotra
BGR Newbie
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:41 am
Location: Delhi

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Raj Malhotra » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:39 am

Posters in this forum are making same mistake Modi team made when they Believe that aggressive tax reforms only affect tax chors.

For eg, after collapse of REAL estate, the builders are still driving BMWs but what happened to labour in thousands of stalled projects?

The point is crocs doing most of mischief got away & fish got hit when pond dried up.

Vikas
BGR Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:57 am

This seems to have become 'Modi Bachao' forum for sure. So blame the stupid corrupt to the core lazy voters for giving chance to another set of corrupt rulers. Weren't it great that they were being $crewed by BJP rulers. Why go and get Scamgressi rulers to get shafted all over again ? Hain Ji.
What happened to MAD combination which was claimed by some posters as some genius Chanakya rolled into Machiavellian body.

crams
Forum Moderator
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:28 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:58 am

Chandrasekaran wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:31 am
SC dismisses all plea's for a court monitored probe in Rafale deal.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 085636.cms

Personally I feel that this *IS* going to further boost the image of the PM.
Interesting that SC waited till after the elections to deliver this verdict which would surely have helped PM ModiJi's image.

Chandrasekaran
BGR Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:42 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Chandrasekaran » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:05 am

Yeah and RaGa used Rafale to the hilt in these elections... Even after the election results were announced he made a statement that PM is corrupt... Hack Thoo on Pappu

crams
Forum Moderator
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:28 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:06 am

Another example of how upended the narrative has been is the entire Congoon ecosystem is universal in proclaiming that PM ModiJi's rhetoric has been strident, had been harsh. But reality is that it is the Congoons who have been viciously attacking BJP/ModiJi from day 1. I wonder how "Chowkidar chor hai" is not strident name calling. The solution to this is not BJP playing good boy, but to hit back with equal vengeance.

Vikas
BGR Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:08 am

Chandragupta wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:50 am

I was shouting from rooftops om BRF's GDF that traders & SME owners were howling at DeMo & GST and I was asked 'kitna gaya'.

There was just too much disruption in too little time and it went the other way for the GoI. Let us be honest, Indians are not East Asians or Americans that they will work by a system, we are corrupt, lazy & freeloaders and we don't want anyone to disturb us when we are eating the pie someone else paid for.

These steps should have been taken over 10 years while BJP consolidated the Hindu votebase further with RJB, 35A and promoting SME sector which was & still remains the largest job making sector in the country, perhaps with easier access to capital & lesser formalities.
CG Ji, I wonder where are those who were mocking us with 'Kitna Gaya' taunt, when complained about DeMo. It may have been a good thought but timing and execution was the most cruel one. I still don't know if there was any tangible benefit out of DeMo.

I have no doubt that RJ and MP will go back to BJP in 5 years, but consider CG lost like AP, KL and TN due to next 5 years of unabated EJ activities. Damn! In donkey number of years of ruling the state, Raman Singh could not even banish EJ's out of the state for good.
I hope Congress Govt renames Atalnagar to Rajiv/Indira/Nehru Nagar to rub it in.

Sachin
BGR Oldie
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:25 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:10 am

Supratik wrote:Apparently the entire black money driven informal economic chain has been broken.
Which also confirms my own thoughts on this. The Baniyas were expecting BJP (under Na.Mo) to be another version of Congress, but with the additional role of a street goonda who would protect them from RoL and RoP predators using the principles of "Hindutwa". If INC takes up this role, rest assured this very same group would vote for them as well. If I understand right lots of people also hate the trader community for this attitude. In KL, gold smuggling is a long standing "profession" of peacefools. And now many from that community also tell others one aspect. Who is buying these smuggled gold? It involves pretty much all the jewellery firms run by Brahmins, X'ians and Muslims. If they played an honest game, peacefools will never focus on "gold smuggling".
Mort Walker wrote:They don't bring money bags with them. Kamalnath and Gehlot certainly do. Kamalnath makes Digvijay look like an honest esteemed statesman.
There is a video floating around in which Ra.Ga is now backtracking on farmer loan waiver. Then there was the squabble on choosing a Chief Minister, and the so called "youth icons" have been asked to take a hike. The INC have already started issuing sticks to the BJP, if BJP can effectively start utilising them. Another "secular" coalition government in KA has issued crores of money as farm loan waiver to just 800 humble farmers (who are those lucky 800, I don't know).
Chandragupta wrote:Let us be honest, Indians are not East Asians or Americans that they will work by a system, we are corrupt, lazy & freeloaders and we don't want anyone to disturb us when we are eating the pie someone else paid for.
Then we need to be more honest and admit that INC and Nehru-Ghandis are our apt rulers. The British would be the best; but don't think they want to start building colonies again ;).
crams wrote:Interesting that SC waited till after the elections to deliver this verdict which would surely have helped PM ModiJi's image.
Thinking from another angle. How much of Rafale would have impacted state elections (Defence is in national domain, not a state level issue). And if BJP is smart enough they can use the verdict to their advantage during LS 2019 election campaigning.

Locked