The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - Oct 2018)

The Archive forum serves as a repository for topics that have been closed from the other forums. They serve as a database for future reference.
Locked
chetak
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2039
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:08 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:26 pm

Sabarimala Case: ‘People For Dharma’ Lawyer Leaves Court Spellbound; Here Are His Arguments

Sabarimala Case: ‘People For Dharma’ Lawyer Leaves Court Spellbound; Here Are His Arguments
by Swarajya Staff

Jul 27, 2018, 3:40 pm

Snapshot
People for Dharma makes its case on day six of the Sabarimala hearing.
Counsel Sai Deepak’s arguments are explained here:


The petition in the Supreme Court of India seeking entry of women of all ages in the Sabarimala Temple is in the final stages of its hearing.

The petitioners have argued that not allowing all women inside the temple amounts to discrimination based on gender and is thus violating of the Indian Constitution. A series of respondents has contested the claims of the petitioners in the case.

On 26 July, lawyer J Sai Deepak appeared on behalf of a non-profit organisation called ‘People for Dharma’, one of the respondents in the case. His forceful arguments in the court took social media by storm, where he was hailed for greatly strengthening the case of the defence.

Sai said that from the language of Article 25(1), it is evident that the rights of any worshipper under the said Article are subject to the rights of religious institutions under Article 26 and, therefore, the former cannot claim to have better rights than the latter.

The lawyer submitted that while the petitioner, temple, and devotees have been asserting their rights under Articles 25(1), 26, and 25(1) respectively, no one has pointed out that deity also has rights under Articles 25 (1), 21, and 26.

Sai then referred to various judgments of the Privy Council and the Supreme Court of India establishing that a deity has juristic character and is thus a legal person and, therefore, can enjoy rights under Articles 21, 25(1), and 26.


Sai submitted that the deity has rights to practise and preserve its Dharma, including its vow of Naishtika Brahmacharya under Article 25(1) and has the right to expect the privacy of that character under Article 21. He further stated that it is the vow of the deity that is implemented as the tradition of the Sabarimala Temple, which, therefore, brings into the picture rights under Article 26(b).

The lawyer then argued that the petitioner cannot claim that its rights under Article 25(1) must prevail over the rights of the deity along with the rights of devotees, men and women, who observe the tradition. He also submitted that a worshipper cannot claim to have a greater right to worship than the rights of the deity whom he or she claims to worship and whose traditions he or she has no respect for.

Sai argued that the issue in the petition was not about “temple vs women” or “men vs women”, but “men v men” and “women vs women”. If the petitioner’s contention were allowed, then men who don't observe the 41-day vow can also claim right of entry into Sabarimala Temple citing Article 25(1). A Hindu might say that he wants to offer chicken to Lord Ganesha citing Article 25(1) and so on.


While arguing for the temple’s right to preserve its denomination under Article 26, Sai was asked by the Chief Justice how Ayyappa devotees constituted a religious denomination when there was no specific “Ayyappa sect”. Sai pointed out to the Chief Justice’s observation that the status of a religious denomination is not bestowed by the court but is something that comes from within the community. Since Ayyappa devotees share a common faith in Lord Ayyappa, and respect the practices associated with the worship of Lord Ayyappa, they would qualify as a religious denomination.

The Chief Justice then asked that since Ayyappa devotees come from other faiths, would it still be possible to call them a religious denomination. To this, Sai responded that Hinduism differs from other faiths on this aspect and Anglican/Christian definition or understanding of religious denomination cannot be applied to Hinduism.

On the charge of discriminating against menstruating women, Sai submitted that the primary object of the religious practice was to preserve the celibate form of the deity and not exclusion of menstruating women. The latter follows from the former. Sai put evidence from the religious texts before the bench, establishing the celibate nature of the deity.

Sai stated that the discrimination charge would’ve been justified had the entire focus of the temple and its practices was to keep “all women” out, but that’s not the case. All exclusion is not discrimination, especially when the object of the rule has nothing to do with misogyny or impurity of menstruation, he said.

On the issue of whether the Sabarimala Temple was being maintained out of the funds drawn from the Consolidated Fund of India, Sai placed before the court the 1922 proclamation of the erstwhile Maharaja of Travancore, where, in return for taking over the lands of the temples in Travancore, he had declared to pay an annuity of Rs 16 lakh for the running of the temples in the Travancore Devaswom. This obligation was inherited by the Indian state since it took over the temple lands from the Princely State. Therefore, it’s incorrect to state that the Sabarimala Temple was being run by state funds and, therefore, were state bodies.


Sai was granted 10-15 minutes’ time in the forenoon to put forth his submissions. However, he argued for more than one and a half hours without being asked by any of the judges to stop. This is a testament to the quality of his argument and rhetoric.

Justice Nariman observed that Sai Deepak’s submission was instructive. The Chief Justice commented that not only was it instructive but was an impressive articulation with both rhetoric and logic. “Your arguments are impressive, I must admit that”, he said

chetak
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2039
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:08 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:16 pm

we have to be careful of this jehadi khan.

female anchors and the usual presstitutes are already creaming with anticipation of interviewing this mutt.


Today’s cartoon in ‘The Times’ (London)

Image

KL Dubey
BGR Member
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by KL Dubey » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:13 pm

On tthe face of it, looks like Hardik Patel is headed to the slammer....but not quite sure how this works:

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 26391.html

Not only has he been judged guilty but the sentence has also been given. Then what is the bail for ? Sorry if I am ignorant.

Karthik
BGR Member
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Karthik » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:28 pm

Image
Prashant Patel Umrao @ippatel
Jamiat Ulema E Hind is forming Army, 12.5 Youths will be trained every year, Total 1.25 Crore youths till 2028. Is it preparation for Gazva E Hind?
But hey, according to BJP patriots and loyalists, toilets and bank accounts will guarantee civilizational and nation's safety and security.
If this news is true, govt needs to act on such elements immediately, hope BJP doesn't wait till it gets 5000 seats in parliament for such serious threat.

Gus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:59 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Gus » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:02 pm

what the eff is a 12.5 youth ..one guy comes only half the year for training? :lol:

JohnTitor
BGR Member
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:09 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:09 pm

^^ not going to happen. Only RSS is communal.

JohnTitor
BGR Member
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:09 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:10 pm

Gus wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:02 pm
what the eff is a 12.5 youth ..one guy comes only half the year for training? :lol:
Simple maths suggests that it is meant to be 12.5 Lac per year.. 10 years = 1.25cr

KL Dubey
BGR Member
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by KL Dubey » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:15 pm

Karthik wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:28 pm
But hey, according to BJP patriots and loyalists, toilets and bank accounts will guarantee civilizational and nation's safety and security.
If this news is true, govt needs to act on such elements immediately, hope BJP doesn't wait till it gets 5000 seats in parliament for such serious threat.
Sounds like youth physical fitness programs. As for the "100 in 2018 and 12 lakh in 2019" claim.... :roll:

If they are getting firearms training (highly unlikely) then obviously the goremint will have to shut this down.

In comparison the RSS has a huge force of millions of men (Mohan Bhagwat claims he can raise an army in less than a week). RSS easily puts together 10K+ size of volunteer forces for disaster relief and such.

I don't know why you decided to link this to "BJP patriots", toilets, bank accounts, etc...but that is your habit that you can't kick.

chetak
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2039
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:08 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by chetak » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:35 am

KL Dubey wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:13 pm
On tthe face of it, looks like Hardik Patel is headed to the slammer....but not quite sure how this works:

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 26391.html

Not only has he been judged guilty but the sentence has also been given. Then what is the bail for ? Sorry if I am ignorant.
It is for the endless rounds of appeal that will go on eternally and till the guy dies of old age, triumphant and never incarcerated.

Karthik
BGR Member
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Karthik » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:07 am

KL Dubey wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:15 pm
Karthik wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:28 pm
But hey, according to BJP patriots and loyalists, toilets and bank accounts will guarantee civilizational and nation's safety and security.
If this news is true, govt needs to act on such elements immediately, hope BJP doesn't wait till it gets 5000 seats in parliament for such serious threat.
Sounds like youth physical fitness programs. As for the "100 in 2018 and 12 lakh in 2019" claim.... :roll:

If they are getting firearms training (highly unlikely) then obviously the goremint will have to shut this down.

In comparison the RSS has a huge force of millions of men (Mohan Bhagwat claims he can raise an army in less than a week). RSS easily puts together 10K+ size of volunteer forces for disaster relief and such.

I don't know why you decided to link this to "BJP patriots", toilets, bank accounts, etc...but that is your habit that you can't kick.
Dubey ji, you heard news about cattle smugglers entering army camp and shooting at guards? Or them shooting at police when being chased. Getting guns doesn't seem that difficult for them.
People who volunteer during disaster relief are different from people mentioned above.

>>>>I don't know why you decided to link this to "BJP patriots", toilets, bank accounts, etc...but that is your habit that you can't kick.

That's because whenever people used to post similar news items, two kinds of replies where often seen: (1) that they are aaptards etc masquerading as BJP supporters etc. (2) Govt has to improve economic condition, hindutva or hindu issues don't matter now.

Karthik
BGR Member
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Karthik » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:08 am

Gus wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:02 pm
what the eff is a 12.5 youth ..one guy comes only half the year for training? :lol:
That's what caught your eye in the entire message??

Aditya_V
BGR Member
Posts: 344
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:26 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Aditya_V » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:18 am

Yes, remove BJP and these assorted parties will remove Muslim fundamentalism. How come they get a free pass?

crams
Forum Moderator
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:28 am

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by crams » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:47 am

chetak wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:16 pm
we have to be careful of this jehadi khan.

female anchors and the usual presstitutes are already creaming with anticipation of interviewing this mutt.
Oh yes, already Burka Bibi was on BBC, WP etc declaring what a heart throb Jihadi Khan is, how has millions of fans in India, how many friends he has in India, how Indian women swoon over him etc. If only she were not a western wannabe deracinated scoundrel, if only she had a little higher IQ, if only she had a semblance of Hindu pride, she wouldn't be devoting so much time on this scum bag, she would have recalled the filth this puke has said about India, and above all, that he is nothing but a hard core Islamist on modern mufti.

I have a feeling, like Pappu's hug tamasha, ISI will make him do a rope trick on ModiJi like inviting him to his inauguration or suggesting resumption of kirket, calling for a summit etc. All bogus offers designed to elicit a sure NO from India, which ISI then thinks Indian chutiya media like Undy, Scroll, Print etc, along with western toadies will blame "Hindu extremist" BJP and RSS for missing a chance to make "South Asia" a garden of Eden.

Karthik
BGR Member
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Karthik » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:56 am

Aditya_V wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:18 am
Yes, remove BJP and these assorted parties will remove Muslim fundamentalism. How come they get a free pass?
So govt need not do anything because other parties won't do anything? You make lot of sense.

Nandu
BGR Newbie
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:09 am
Location: Chennai

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Nandu » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:19 am

Karthik
You are conflating Government and the political party that commands a majority in the Lok Sabha. BJP is not the Government. It is a party which happens to have formed the Govt after 2014 election. You are effectively saying that BJP should renounce its claim to form the Government in order that the other political parties will rid the nation of whatever social ills afflicting it. If it is your claim that BJP is the cause of all that is wrong in the country, well that is a point of view. But others may have a different perspective.

Sachin
BGR Oldie
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:25 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:29 am

KL Dubey wrote:On tthe face of it, looks like Hardik Patel is headed to the slammer....but not quite sure how this works:
Not only has he been judged guilty but the sentence has also been given. Then what is the bail for ? Sorry if I am ignorant.
There is a catch here. For any prison sentence for a term lesser than four years, the prisoner can seek bail as he has the right to appeal in higher courts. So instead of being sent to the prison he is let off on bail pending his appeal. For prison sentences exceeding four years the guilty are immediately taken to a prison. They have to remain in prison but can file appeals from there. Just see a verdict given by a Kerala court against police men accused of torturing a mean to death, 13 years ago. Two police constables have been given death sentence and they are now in prison; but can appeal. Superior officers (two of them retired one is now a Dy.SP) were given bail as their sentence was for destorying evidence and it was for a term of three years. They would be filing appeals right away.
If they are getting firearms training (highly unlikely) then obviously the goremint will have to shut this down.
In comparison the RSS has a huge force of millions of men (Mohan Bhagwat claims he can raise an army in less than a week). RSS easily puts together 10K+ size of volunteer forces for disaster relief and such.
This kind of "volunteer organisations" of the Muslims have been tried out in the past. The champion of this scheme was Shri. Abdul Nasar Mahdani-ji, who has the rare honour of serving prison sentences in every state in Southern India. He started off with "Islamic Sevak Sangh (ISS") which soon lost its sheen when its founder became the state's guest at Coimbatore,TN. But the people associated with this soon spread into other organisations like PFI, SDPI etc. If there is a pan-India move to come up with a Muslim version of RSS, this is going to polarise things further with more Hindus then opting to join RSS.
Karthik wrote:If this news is true, govt needs to act on such elements immediately, hope BJP doesn't wait till it gets 5000 seats in parliament for such serious threat.
Why do you assume that BJP (or the Govt. led by it) has NOT taken any action and that it also will NOT take any action in the future? This seems to be prejudice.

Lilo
BGR Member
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:25 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Lilo » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:29 am

chetak wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:26 pm
Sabarimala Case: ‘People For Dharma’ Lawyer Leaves Court Spellbound; Here Are His Arguments

Sabarimala Case: ‘People For Dharma’ Lawyer Leaves Court Spellbound; Here Are His Arguments
by Swarajya Staff

Jul 27, 2018, 3:40 pm

Snapshot
People for Dharma makes its case on day six of the Sabarimala hearing.
Counsel Sai Deepak’s arguments are explained here:


The petition in the Supreme Court of India seeking entry of women of all ages in the Sabarimala Temple is in the final stages of its hearing.

The petitioners have argued that not allowing all women inside the temple amounts to discrimination based on gender and is thus violating of the Indian Constitution. A series of respondents has contested the claims of the petitioners in the case.

On 26 July, lawyer J Sai Deepak appeared on behalf of a non-profit organisation called ‘People for Dharma’, one of the respondents in the case. His forceful arguments in the court took social media by storm, where he was hailed for greatly strengthening the case of the defence.

Sai said that from the language of Article 25(1), it is evident that the rights of any worshipper under the said Article are subject to the rights of religious institutions under Article 26 and, therefore, the former cannot claim to have better rights than the latter.

The lawyer submitted that while the petitioner, temple, and devotees have been asserting their rights under Articles 25(1), 26, and 25(1) respectively, no one has pointed out that deity also has rights under Articles 25 (1), 21, and 26.

Sai then referred to various judgments of the Privy Council and the Supreme Court of India establishing that a deity has juristic character and is thus a legal person and, therefore, can enjoy rights under Articles 21, 25(1), and 26.


Sai submitted that the deity has rights to practise and preserve its Dharma, including its vow of Naishtika Brahmacharya under Article 25(1) and has the right to expect the privacy of that character under Article 21. He further stated that it is the vow of the deity that is implemented as the tradition of the Sabarimala Temple, which, therefore, brings into the picture rights under Article 26(b).

The lawyer then argued that the petitioner cannot claim that its rights under Article 25(1) must prevail over the rights of the deity along with the rights of devotees, men and women, who observe the tradition. He also submitted that a worshipper cannot claim to have a greater right to worship than the rights of the deity whom he or she claims to worship and whose traditions he or she has no respect for.

Sai argued that the issue in the petition was not about “temple vs women” or “men vs women”, but “men v men” and “women vs women”. If the petitioner’s contention were allowed, then men who don't observe the 41-day vow can also claim right of entry into Sabarimala Temple citing Article 25(1). A Hindu might say that he wants to offer chicken to Lord Ganesha citing Article 25(1) and so on.


While arguing for the temple’s right to preserve its denomination under Article 26, Sai was asked by the Chief Justice how Ayyappa devotees constituted a religious denomination when there was no specific “Ayyappa sect”. Sai pointed out to the Chief Justice’s observation that the status of a religious denomination is not bestowed by the court but is something that comes from within the community. Since Ayyappa devotees share a common faith in Lord Ayyappa, and respect the practices associated with the worship of Lord Ayyappa, they would qualify as a religious denomination.

The Chief Justice then asked that since Ayyappa devotees come from other faiths, would it still be possible to call them a religious denomination. To this, Sai responded that Hinduism differs from other faiths on this aspect and Anglican/Christian definition or understanding of religious denomination cannot be applied to Hinduism.

On the charge of discriminating against menstruating women, Sai submitted that the primary object of the religious practice was to preserve the celibate form of the deity and not exclusion of menstruating women. The latter follows from the former. Sai put evidence from the religious texts before the bench, establishing the celibate nature of the deity.

Sai stated that the discrimination charge would’ve been justified had the entire focus of the temple and its practices was to keep “all women” out, but that’s not the case. All exclusion is not discrimination, especially when the object of the rule has nothing to do with misogyny or impurity of menstruation, he said.

On the issue of whether the Sabarimala Temple was being maintained out of the funds drawn from the Consolidated Fund of India, Sai placed before the court the 1922 proclamation of the erstwhile Maharaja of Travancore, where, in return for taking over the lands of the temples in Travancore, he had declared to pay an annuity of Rs 16 lakh for the running of the temples in the Travancore Devaswom. This obligation was inherited by the Indian state since it took over the temple lands from the Princely State. Therefore, it’s incorrect to state that the Sabarimala Temple was being run by state funds and, therefore, were state bodies.


Sai was granted 10-15 minutes’ time in the forenoon to put forth his submissions. However, he argued for more than one and a half hours without being asked by any of the judges to stop. This is a testament to the quality of his argument and rhetoric.

Justice Nariman observed that Sai Deepak’s submission was instructive. The Chief Justice commented that not only was it instructive but was an impressive articulation with both rhetoric and logic. “Your arguments are impressive, I must admit that”, he said
Chetak ji ,
You have been onlee suckered by an old marketing tactic of lawyers.
All these arguments are not Sai Deepak's own, they have always been part of similar Hindu defences as in Ayodhya ram temple for example. This overhyping of Sai Deepak instead of concentrating on the actual Hindu arguments in Sabarimala temple is Swarajya's inept attempt at a puff piece for Sai Deepak, for the sake of mutually beneficial relationship they have with his "business".
Indian courts presided by Judges(and not a jury) dont work upon the strength of argument or logic, they work on political patronage and or the considerations of money.Read up the suicide note of ex CM Kalikho Pul to know the truth.Actually this article reminded me of the pre-independence era puff pieces in the paidmedia of those days where day by day developments in courts were widely put in front pages where British minions(behind the scenes) like Motilal or Jawaharlal used to get regularly highlighted as the foremost defenders of Indian national movement in Courts with the White British judges supposedly regularly getting blown away by such "strong" arguments.But now we know the truth of such preindependence dog and pony shows.

If the judges gave Sai Deepak 1.5 hrs to argue his case instead of 10 minutes normally allotted, then it only means that he has monetarily or otherwise contributed for the judge's munificence in this matter. If one wants to put up a recurrent dog and pony show for the sake of milking the gullible Hindutva crowd for for donations, then i guess it pays to market one's "business" using such "classic" means.

Mark my words ,despite the sideshow of posers like Sai Deepak, the Sabarimala case will be decided based on political compulsions on the Judges, Same as Ayodhya ,this political compulsion has to do with the power balance between the BJP/Hindutva movement vs the Congi/Sikular patronized judges.Whether they can be turned or pressurized by BJP like current CJI or whether they can weather the pressure of BJP govt in the interim and give the judgement during a congi ascendant term post 2019....If its the latter then Hindus will loose the Sabrimala case to the sikulars ,if its the former then Hindus will win.Thats all.

Ashish Raval
BGR Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:04 pm
Location: London

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Ashish Raval » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:45 am

crams wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:47 am
chetak wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:16 pm
we have to be careful of this jehadi khan.

female anchors and the usual presstitutes are already creaming with anticipation of interviewing this mutt.
Oh yes, already Burka Bibi was on BBC, WP etc declaring what a heart throb Jihadi Khan is, how has millions of fans in India, how many friends he has in India, how Indian women swoon over him etc. If only she were not a western wannabe deracinated scoundrel, if only she had a little higher IQ, if only she had a semblance of Hindu pride, she wouldn't be devoting so much time on this scum bag, she would have recalled the filth this puke has said about India, and above all, that he is nothing but a hard core Islamist on modern mufti.

I have a feeling, like Pappu's hug tamasha, ISI will make him do a rope trick on ModiJi like inviting him to his inauguration or suggesting resumption of kirket, calling for a summit etc. All bogus offers designed to elicit a sure NO from India, which ISI then thinks Indian chutiya media like Undy, Scroll, Print etc, along with western toadies will blame "Hindu extremist" BJP and RSS for missing a chance to make "South Asia" a garden of Eden.
I think you are in wrong profession if you are not journalist. You pen is mightier than sword or spoken words. You should start a publication to make the secular run for clothes.

Sachin
BGR Oldie
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:25 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:34 am

Lilo wrote:Mark my words ,despite the sideshow of posers like Sai Deepak, the Sabarimala case will be decided based on political compulsions on the Judges, Same as Ayodhya ,this political compulsion has to do with the power balance between the BJP/Hindutva movement vs the Congi/Sikular patronized judges.
I tend to agree with you here :). To be honest arguments set forward by Adv. Parasaran and Adv. Sai Deepak has been really mind blowing. I mean the facts they have listed out, at least shows the in-depth knowledge they had (or have gained) on the Hindu religous tenets. We need to accept and appreciate that fact. In case of a jury trial this may have had an influence (remember the Cmdr. Nanavati case?). But after seeing the MSM reports on the statements from various judges hearing the case, this did look like an "open & shut case" with "seculars" on the winning side. The verdict in this case, and the verdict in case of RJB; I feel this is what we need to watch out for.

Thinking from a BJP angle. At a national level it really does not matter on how the Sabari Mala verdict goes. KL is never a vote bank for BJP. The state level BJP leadership are nincompoops. You can very well try to find out what is the stance of KL BJP (if they really have one) in case of Sabari Mala issue. The state level BJP leadership has just ignored the whole case and the court drama. Now if I was BJP and I have two court cases related to Hindu religion (Sabari Mala & RJB), and I know that in one case the verdict really does not matter and on the other one it really affects my core vote bank. Which case would I put more focus? And if I had leverage over the judges, which case would I use that leverage? ;) :).

Lilo
BGR Member
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:25 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Lilo » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:53 am

Sachin wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:34 am
To be honest arguments set forward by Adv. Parasaran and Adv. Sai Deepak has been really mind blowing....
^
Regarding K.Parasaran, i have already commented once highlighting his role as the attorney general of India in the deplorable Union Carbide setting(similar to role of SuSu).He is close to Sonia and was nomitated as RS MP by congies in UPA2 term - to liaise with the collegium judges under patronage.
..This is as true as the day when Suswa was air dropped into the Indian political arena by Massa back in 1989 just so that Massa can seal the lid shut on the Union carbide case .He was brought in as the Law minister (note that this was before the collegium system was adopted - hence law min played the key role in "managing and appointing" the judges).Suswa with the support of his handlers went from strength to strength to his current position of Virat Hindu poser for his followers. Contrast this to the fate of Dinesh Goswami - the Law minister preceding SuSwa who put a spanner into the works of the "setting" reached by the Rajiv Gandhi's AG - K Parasaran(this traitor K Parasaran is still in circulation as a congi nominated RS MP and SuSwa still moves close with this guy in the Chennai and lutyens circuit) .Dinesh goswami (the uncle of arnab goswami) questioned this setting publicly as a part of the VP Singh govt and was finally accidented by a lorry in Assam for his efforts. Suswa is the traitor who replaced him now in the Chandrasekhar govt and sealed the lid on the Union Carbide case shut. Rest is history.
Now in 2018 Suswa may put up a bombastic dog and pony show in front of his gullible swamytards but the fact is Suswa still has deep handles on Supreme Court judiciary (he obtained them during his stint as the Massa appointed lawminister and runs them in his official capacity as one of the Massa agents ).

https://forum.bharatganrajya.com/viewto ... 8257#p8257

Karthik
BGR Member
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Karthik » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:26 pm

Lilo wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:53 am
Sachin wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:34 am
To be honest arguments set forward by Adv. Parasaran and Adv. Sai Deepak has been really mind blowing....
^
Regarding K.Parasaran, i have already commented once highlighting his role as the attorney general of India in the deplorable Union Carbide setting(similar to role of SuSu).He is close to Sonia and was nomitated as RS MP by congies in UPA2 term - to liaise with the collegium judges under patronage.
..This is as true as the day when Suswa was air dropped into the Indian political arena by Massa back in 1989 just so that Massa can seal the lid shut on the Union carbide case .He was brought in as the Law minister (note that this was before the collegium system was adopted - hence law min played the key role in "managing and appointing" the judges).Suswa with the support of his handlers went from strength to strength to his current position of Virat Hindu poser for his followers. Contrast this to the fate of Dinesh Goswami - the Law minister preceding SuSwa who put a spanner into the works of the "setting" reached by the Rajiv Gandhi's AG - K Parasaran(this traitor K Parasaran is still in circulation as a congi nominated RS MP and SuSwa still moves close with this guy in the Chennai and lutyens circuit) .Dinesh goswami (the uncle of arnab goswami) questioned this setting publicly as a part of the VP Singh govt and was finally accidented by a lorry in Assam for his efforts. Suswa is the traitor who replaced him now in the Chandrasekhar govt and sealed the lid on the Union Carbide case shut. Rest is history.
Now in 2018 Suswa may put up a bombastic dog and pony show in front of his gullible swamytards but the fact is Suswa still has deep handles on Supreme Court judiciary (he obtained them during his stint as the Massa appointed lawminister and runs them in his official capacity as one of the Massa agents ).

https://forum.bharatganrajya.com/viewto ... 8257#p8257
If what you say is true, then we are indeed doomed. Private citizens fighting for hindutva are compromised you say, the govt doesn't want to touch hindutva issues with 10 feet pole.
Add to that the sickular Gang of 4, sickular credential of one of that gang member we saw during recent case in UP.

Raj Malhotra
BGR Newbie
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:41 am
Location: Delhi

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Raj Malhotra » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:24 pm

In theory BJP had a very intelligent policy
Win elections on the basis of Hindu vote both but talk only of Vikas overtly
When in power, continue the appeasement policy so that the minorities will also vote for BJP in the next elections, ditch Hindutva & build pro poor image
Unfortunately it seems that BJP has been unable to get the minority votes and its pro MNC economic policies will lead to damage to core vote base
But that's no different from 1977, 1989, 2004 etc when BJP messed around with its voter base
Coupled with mahagathbandhan it means that BJP will have great difficulty in repeating its feat of 2014
BJP needs 250 + seats while Congress only needs 100 + seats to form the government
Congress has solid vote and support of 20% minorities, any minor drift of BJP voters to Congress will lead to complete decimation of BJP
Saying that Congress is anti Hindu and BJP is pro Hindu is not adequate, the question is what is BJP doing for them?

Raj Malhotra
BGR Newbie
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:41 am
Location: Delhi

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Raj Malhotra » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:27 pm

I have dealt with K Parasaran, he is very passionate about Hindu issues and against interference in temple Management
While I cannot say anything about his larger political and career moves but on Temple issues he has been very vocal and against interference

Gus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:59 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Gus » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:52 pm

Karthik wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:56 am
So govt need not do anything because other parties won't do anything? You make lot of sense.
1. state the issue
2. state the solution
3. state how to bring about the solution
4. state how bjp is failing and how not having bjp (which is rahul or some puppet like kumarasamy) will bring about the solution.

If you cannot do it, then stop whining about bjp/modi. you are not going to get any traction doing that.

you will be an useful idiot to your own enemies who put you in this situation. no amount of chestbeating about modi can change your situation.

Karthik
BGR Member
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Karthik » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:00 am

Gus wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:52 pm
Karthik wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:56 am
So govt need not do anything because other parties won't do anything? You make lot of sense.
1. state the issue
2. state the solution
3. state how to bring about the solution
4. state how bjp is failing and how not having bjp (which is rahul or some puppet like kumarasamy) will bring about the solution.

If you cannot do it, then stop whining about bjp/modi. you are not going to get any traction doing that.

you will be an useful idiot to your own enemies who put you in this situation. no amount of chestbeating about modi can change your situation.
I think Raj Malhotra has echoed same feeling in previous page. If it's not too obvious to you what's going on with core issues and you blindly ask others to shut up and discard every anti hindu issue that's not being looked into, good luck winning next elections. I Can bet 100% BJP will bring up hindutva during election campaigns, even though it has taken a distant back seat. If it wins the election, hindu issues will again become irrelevant as with all past bjp govts.

So who are useful idiots?
BTW top performing minister in modi govt is naqvi. What nice policies he has roled out for his dept.

Locked