The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - Oct 2018)

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Sachin
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:34 pm

Indrad wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:52 pm
what do guys think of new guideline of address verification not important for passport? It can be issued on the basis of aadhar card.
I found a news report, which also states that Sushma Swaraj feels this is one of the Modi government's achievements. As per this news report - "If any of the above is submitted by an applicant at the Passport Seva Kendra with relevant documents (ration card, electricity bill, house rent receipt) then the applicant will not face hectic police verification, said a source from MEA.".

Issuing a passport (which makes the holder a bonafide citizen of India) just based on Aadhaar card is useless and dangerous in the long term. There was a case of three Pakistanis who had got Aadhaar cards at Bangalore. Luckily they were caught. Imagine if they were still free people, and actually applies for Indian Passport? They would be given Indian passports, which means they have now neatly become Indian citizens :roll:.

I know that Sushma Swaraj is heading the MEA, but I still hope that some common sense is left with folks in the ministry :(. Here is the press conference details from the MEA web site.
Apply Anywhere in India for Passport Services
Quoting the relevant part:-
For example, a resident of Jaipur, who is temporarily residing in Kolkata, will now be able to apply at a PSK/POPSK under RPO, Kolkata, and does not have to travel all the way back to Jaipur to submit an application for passport at a PSK/POPSK under RPO, Jaipur. The police verification, if necessary, would be conducted at Jaipur. RPO, Kolkata, would print and despatch the passport at the address specified in the passport application form.

Which clearly means that police verification process has NOT been totally removed. What is changing is that an applicant can choose his own convenient Passport Seva Kendra (eg: a Bangalore based chap goes to the PSK in ORR). He can apply for the passport there, but chooses another address (eg: an address in Kerala). Before this new process, the Bangalore PSK would reject the application saying that the person does NOT stay at their jurisdiction. Now what would happen is that Bangalore RPO would send out a verification address to the state police under whose jurisdiction the address falls. So in my example the verification request comes to Kerala Police who would detail men from the State Special Branch to do the verification. They can very well report that the said person is NOT staying in this address for a very long time. In Kerala as of today the passport verification is a two step process (at the police level). A physical verification of the applicant (at the address mentioned) is done by a police man who works out of the local police station. This was always a problem as bribing this chap was real easy (every one in the station limits knew these police men by sight). Now there is also a check done by State Special Branch first in their computerised database (for past cases, criminal history, court warrants etc.) as well as real discreet enquiry in the vicinity. Both the reports goto the Special Branch and if they don't tally the life of the chap who gave incorrect information is going to be a mess.

I know a case where a lady who landed in trouble due to this. Applied for passport in Kerala when she was married and staying at Bangalore for the past 8 years. The local police man just made a quick enquiry and went without giving any commitments. Her parents thought that the passport was on its way. The SSB chap reported that the lady was married, has a son, and they are long time residents of Bangalore. Instead of a passport she got a show cause notice from the RPO.

A lot of computerisation has been done in the Passport department. Even police verification systems have now been computerised and is also homogenous across the state. Sending verification reports from one location to another is not a cumbersome job now. This step is just like the computerised reservation system of IR. From booking from any where to any where, can be done from any where.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Triank » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:50 pm

Rahul M wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:47 pm
to survive is the first step in being dharmic.
(because there was some vaad-vivaad about Dharma-adharma)

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by RajaRaja » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:29 pm

JohnTitor wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:25 am
I'm sorry, your description of dharma is incorrect and has been the cause of inexcusable amounts of suffering. This is the nonsensical Gandhian dharma. True dharma isn't black and white not is it uniform for everyone.

True dharma includes being "adharmic" to protect the greater good. It isn't telling the truth all the time and shoving your other cheek when you get slapped. Even going by your silly analogy, if prostituting saves your daughters from being sold as sex slaves, then that is acceptable.

Modi may not be the best there ever was, but he's the best hope Hindus have. Stating otherwise is only lying to oneself.
Don't you think you are contradicting yourself? If as per you true Dharma is not uniform for everyone then how can you label my version incorrect and Gandhi ji's version nonsensical? Using your own statement your interpretation of Dharma can also be labeled incorrect when viewed from another person's perspective. Anyway I don't have problem with Dharma being flexible but there is still a basic set of ethics and morality all Dharma must encompass, without ethics and morality there is no Dharma.

So use of "Adharma" to protect/restore Dharma is akin to act of sexual intercourse for restoring virginity.

Dharma can be very well protected by acting within the bounds of Dharma itself. The alternative is a slippery slope and chaos.

Beside, who actually decides the "greater good" ? Shankaracharyas ?

Agree though that turning other cheek is not Dharma.

Anyway, this is political drama thread so I will make this my last on this issue.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:18 pm

CholaBhaturi wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:29 pm
Don't you think you are contradicting yourself? If as per you true Dharma is not uniform for everyone then how can you label my version incorrect and Gandhi ji's version nonsensical? Using your own statement your interpretation of Dharma can also be labeled incorrect when viewed from another person's perspective. Anyway I don't have problem with Dharma being flexible but there is still a basic set of ethics and morality all Dharma must encompass, without ethics and morality there is no Dharma.

So use of "Adharma" to protect/restore Dharma is akin to act of sexual intercourse for restoring virginity.

Dharma can be very well protected by acting within the bounds of Dharma itself. The alternative is a slippery slope and chaos.

Beside, who actually decides the "greater good" ? Shankaracharyas ?

Agree though that turning other cheek is not Dharma.

Anyway, this is political drama thread so I will make this my last on this issue.
It seems contradictory because you are analysing it based on human logic and reasoning. Dharma is above that, in order to understand it, you need to raise your consciousness through dhyana.

Take Thirumangai Alvar, who is the incarnation of Vishnu's bow. He robbed and murdered to construct temples. By your logic, that is not dharma. Yet it is. But if you or I went and did the same, it isn't dharma. There are hundreds of such examples. That is why dharma isn't a code of conduct or list of do's and don'ts.

Gandhi was a moron and his followers who claim what he did is dharma don't know the first thing about dharma. Thank goodness Chanakya wasn't a fool like Gandhi!

All of our scriptures have multiple levels and can't be summarised by a simple translation. If you want to know what dharma is, do some dhyana and meditate instead of quoting some nonsensical philosophy peddled by an old man who had the hots for young girls.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Indrad » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:28 pm

kindly discuss dharm and adharm on a separate thread. this is for daily political developments !

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:20 pm

Govt to oppose nikah halala and polygamy in SC.

https://www.news18.com/news/india/govt- ... 95119.html

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Rudradev » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:55 pm

Good article by Akhilesh Mishra in Swarajya Magazine. Allows some room for cautious optimism, with nine well-argued reasons why Modi is likely to win the next GE.

https://swarajyamag.com/politics/why-mo ... in-in-2019



Why Modi Will Win Again In 2019

- Jun 29, 2018, 7:06 pm

Can Modi win again in 2019? From the Congress’ point of view, this question arouses both despair and hope. Despair because, unlike what their friends in the media told them, 2014 was not a one-off, black swan event. After that, the Modi-led Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) juggernaut has rolled on in state after state, retaining states like Gujarat where it was already in power for more than two decades and conclusively winning states like Uttar Pradesh, where it has never been in power for any sustained period. And then there is the North East, which turned saffron, with even the thuggish left unable to hold its Tripura bastion. Till as late as the Karnataka election in May 2018, the BJP has emerged as the single-largest party, and that too by a wide margin.

But Congress also has hope. Why? Because no party at the Centre, other than the Congress, has been re-elected after a long term in office. The Janata Party experiment failed after three years in office. As did the experiments in 1989, 1996, and 1997. Vajpayee did return in 1999 after getting elected in 1998, but that term lasted just a year and so 1999 was for all purposes a fresh, first term. In 2004, after five years in office, Vajpayee too lost. So, the Congress hope is that Modi too will suffer the same fate in 2019 after a full term.

The idea driving the Congress is this: people vote for the BJP either in crisis situations or when the BJP has a brand new idea and a messenger that can make people give up their default positions driven by caste, language, regional, or religious considerations. Once the BJP is in power, the crisis situation ebbs, as is clearly the case in 2018 when compared to where India was in 2014. The appeal of the BJP under Modi is no longer new and so people would revert to their default positions. To speed up this process, the idea of “Mahagathbandhan” or grand alliance is the chosen vehicle. It was the vehicle that Sonia Gandhi used in 2004 and it is the same vehicle that Rahul Gandhi is hoping to ride on in 2019.

As people start voting along their divided caste lines, instead of uniting on the issues of development and governance, the Mahagathbandhan is intended to agglomerate these votes on caste lines into one block against the BJP in each constituency. So, all non-BJP votes in Bansgaon in Uttar Pradesh, for instance, or in Purulia in Bengal agglomerate and triumph over the BJP votes. Or so will be the hope of the Congress. There is only problem, though, in this well laid-out plan.

Modi.

Here’s why:

First, the seemingly insurmountable challenge of the Mahagathbandhan is not the first hurdle that Modi has faced and overcome. Indeed, all his public life he has faced and defied such challenges. In the 2012 Gujarat Assembly election, Modi was faced with a promise by the Congress to build free houses for lakhs of people. But he did not blink and did not give up his principled position of not indulging in mindless offering of freebies before elections. He prevailed.

Before the 2014 general election, there was a flurry of articles seemingly sympathetic to Modi but pointing out how the geographical limitation of the BJP, lack of allies, and past precedent suggest that despite Modi’s popularity, the BJP would fall short of a majority. In an article in June 2013, this writer had taken on exactly these same arguments and we can see now that most of the points that were made then have turned out to be true. The BJP won a historic full parliamentary majority in 2014.

The rupture of ties with the Shiv Sena before the 2014 Maharashtra Assembly election was thought to be the next Waterloo for the Modi-Shah model. But the BJP prevailed again. When the Congress started facing defeat after defeat in state elections, the next insurmountable challenge propounded for Modi was that it is easy to defeat a discredited Congress, but when it comes to strong regional parties, the BJP would flounder. What could be a more fitting example of strong regional parties than that in Uttar Pradesh? This challenge was surmounted as well.

The next challenge was that it is mostly anti-incumbency that is driving BJP’s victories and it won’t be able to win on a pro-incumbency agenda. This argument was defeated in Gujarat, where the BJP retained power even after 22 years of incumbency. Next challenge was, can the BJP win in non-Hindi belts and where minorities form an overwhelming part of the population? The BJP is now in power in Tripura and Nagaland along with most other states in the North East.

So, we see that it is not the first time a challenge has been posited to the BJP - one that is presumed will be its Waterloo. This Mahagathbandhan stratagem is just the latest in that series.

Second, just as other challenges were converted into an opportunity by the BJP, so too will the Mahagathbandhan challenge. How? Think of it this way. In the recently concluded Karnataka election, the voters of Janata Dal (Secular) or JD(S), though nominally aware that JD(S) is not a likely ally of the BJP, were still not voting for Gandhi-led Congress. Since there was no alliance before the election, their vote was as much for the JD(S) as it was against the Congress. It is only after the election that these parties came together. Similarly, a voter not voting for the BJP in Bengal, in a non-pre-poll alliance situation, would vote for the Trinamool Congress over the BJP and not for the Congress over the BJP. Same would be the case with the non-BJP voter in Uttar Pradesh – he would choose Bahujan Samaj Party or Samajwadi Party over the BJP and not Congress over the BJP. A post-poll khichdi alliance, as one in Karnataka, would still work since the committed voters of the regional parties would be able to vote for their regional party leader over the BJP, although they may be cheated after the election.

But what would a pre-poll Mahagathbandhan do? It would completely eliminate any doubts in the mind of the voter. If a majority of the constituencies has just two prominent candidates – one from the BJP and the other from the respective Mahagathbandhan, then there would be no confusion in the minds of the voter. If not voting for Modi, the voter would know instinctively that they are voting for Gandhi. Why? Because only Congress, with presence in more than one state, would emerge as large enough to lead the coalition. So, an election in West Bengal, in absence of the Mahagathbandhan, which would otherwise have been between a Mamata Banerjee candidate and a Modi candidate, would now effectively become one between the Gandhi candidate and the Modi candidate. And the pattern would be the same in every other state. A Mamata candidate or a Mayawati candidate may still triumph over a Modi candidate in their strongholds. But a Gandhi candidate?

The post-poll alliance mathematics that looks so compelling to Mahagathbandhan proponents would turn into a pre-poll chemistry formula. Ironically then, the Mahagathbandhan would work to the advantage of Modi, especially given his formidable communication abilities and the many ways in which the contrast between an imagined Gandhi-led government and a Modi-led government would be presented.

Third, this Modi-led government has fundamentally transformed the social base of the party. The party of Vajpayee was primarily a middle-class, urban-base party. That is why it was still relatively easier for a pro-poor agenda-led insurrection against it. In the last four years, Modi government has worked hard in its programmes, policies, rhetoric, outlook, and messaging to transform its base from just the middle class to also include the vast numbers of those in the lower economic strata – the poor. These voters were attracted to the BJP in 2014 as well, but back then it was a hope that a Modi – the first prime minister from a similar background – would deliver for them. In 2019, these voters would see that despite being in power for five years, Modi has not changed. Delhi has been unable to corrupt him, and that he is still one of them, just like them. And in these five years, he has delivered in addressing the most basic needs of the poor – something that has been exemplified by the historic fall in the number of people below absolute poverty line. This new social base, which is across castes and regions, is unlike the floating voter and does not change affiliations easily.


Fourth, there is nothing negative really against Modi government. Sure, one could argue that there might have been under-delivery in some cases, owing to a complicated bureaucracy, non-cooperation of states, or legacy issues left behind by the United Progressive Alliance government. However, this would be the first non-Congress government which would go into election without any real negative. As such, the negative campaign that Gandhi would run would turn out to be exactly that – negative without a context, unlike say in 2014 when the BJP’s negative campaign in its early campaign days had accompanying context.

Fifth, in the series of assembly election wins after 2014, many of the schemes of Modi government, implemented well on the ground, have had a net positive impact in supplementing support for the party. Jan Dhan Yojana, Ujjwala Yojana, Mudra Yojana, Swachh Bharat Abhiyaan – all have had beneficiaries running in crores and resulting in a cumulative positive impact. The hope of the opposition parties is that successful implementation of mass-impact schemes would no longer be novel talking points in the latter half of the tenure and would thus have diminishing political returns. Modi’s ability to communicate obviates this truism, but even if it were true, the country is preparing itself for the roll-out of Ayushman Bharat. The programme would empower 10 crore families, 50 crore people, on the day of the launch of the scheme itself. As the impact of this game-changing scheme unfolds, along with other similar mass-impact schemes like Saubhagya Yojana and Pradhan Mantri Awaas Yojana, expect the beneficiaries and their friends and families to support the government that brings them these benefits.

Sixth, at no other time has there been a political party, other than Congress, with such a strong political and electoral machine at the national level. The party under Vajpayee, with Advani also in government, had party presidents who were in the old mould. Amit Shah is cut from a different cloth and he has moulded the party in his own work ethic. Modi’s appeal would not be handicapped by an imperfect mobilisation on the voting day; in fact, if at all, it would only be supplemented.

Seventh, between 2014 and 2019, approximately 7.5 crore new voters would have been added to the voter list. It will be the first election in which people born in this century would be voting. They don’t have any memory of the Congress except what they saw in their early teens in 2013-14. Since then, they have heard nothing positive about the party. Nor have they heard any new agenda from them. These incremental, first-time voters, without any past loyalty, will make up their mind in a growing economy with opportunities in every sphere of life. Why would they imperil their future and risk a return to 2013-14 days?

Eighth, in 2004, there was no template as to what happens when people get divided on default lines and end up supporting the Congress. In 2019, that template exists. How bad the decade of 2004-14 turned out for India, in the age of social media and video communication on every mobile handset, is too near to be forgotten. But even if it were not the case, Karnataka would offer a live example. This contrast between life under Modi government and life under Gandhi government would make the choice that much simpler.

Finally – and this is the crux – governments get re-elected when they can positively impact the lived reality of people. Sheila Dixit won re-elections twice in the city-state of Delhi because the moment you got out of your house, you would encounter a new flyover or an interchange that was easing your life every day. To alter the lived reality of people on a national scale, however, purely by building infrastructure, takes time, which does not lend itself to five-year electoral cycles. That is where the Vajpayee government fell short. When it said we have changed India for the better, a person living in Basti, who did not travel on NH-2, had no basis in his lived reality to believe it. The Modi government, however, is fundamentally different. It is of course building national highways at a pace higher than 25 km per day and rural roads at 130 km per day, but that is not the only thing it is doing.

More than seven crore toilets have been constructed, over 13 crore people have been funded under Mudra Yojana, at least 18 crore people now have social security schemes, more than two crore families now have pucca homes of their own, over 4.5 crore families now live smoke-free lives, and at least 30 crore people now have bank accounts and other benefits. And soon these will be joined by more than 50 crore people who had the demand for quality medical services but did not have the paying capacity and now have that as well. All these people have seen and will see their lived reality change for the better.

So, when Modi argues he is building a “New India”, the foundation of which he has laid, people will see that it corresponds to their real life as well as the lives of their friends and family. To them, the choice between a New India led by Modi and an old India promised by the Mahagathbandhan would, therefore, be a no-contest.


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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by KL Dubey » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:44 pm

^^I was going to post this, but you have beaten me to it. The article sounds like I wrote it myself - couldn't agree more.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by fanne » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:16 am

Some how it is not reflecting in the polls - In GJ or KA, there was not much incremental vote from last assembly (and drop from LS). But these are wealthy state that may not have benefitted that much with 'poor' voters.
Maybe it worked in UP, but Modi held to his 2014 vote %, but that could be the proof that these schemes have benefitted and people have not gone to their default position of caste, freebies, liquor/500 notes on voting day.
The real poor states - Bihar, Odisha, and WB (where barring upper and middle class, a very large group lives very poor), (and to some extent Raj and UP, they mass is comparatively better), this will have a massive impact. The opinion survey show that. Then the marginalized in each state (tribals, drought districts etc) will also be effected. The rural voter that are last mile, or the last 10% (where no opinion poll is going, rural is still a govt. designated 'village' in Delhi) should be benefitting big time by this govt. scheme. I hope there is some survey and BJP has the machine to influence them and take them out to vote. This is easily 10-15% of the voter, many of whom would have been Con voters.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Karthik » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:40 am

Gus wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:08 pm
people move around a lot. I struggled for my renewal, as my documents did not match, some were at my house and some at my parents house etc. and some where from when we lived in another place. It's not easy to change address on DL, ration card etc. Heck, I even struggled to change address in bank as my signatures did not match. They were matching it from my signature when I opened the account in 2000 :lol: the form had to be sent to the banks processing center in bombay and they declined it and all this took 3 weeks. :facepalm: I was stuck and not able to travel.
Compromising national security, wherein 7 crore illegals can apply passport little easier now VS inconvenience, delay. Which one is more important?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Triank » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:52 am

kvjayan wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:25 pm

Su Swamy in a tweet: "On July 8 th public meeting in Mumbai Rajiv Malhotra I will unveil the conspiracy of the Gang of Four to topple Namo Govt".
Image

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Triank » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:58 am

sorry, but seems like nobody has mentioned about it in the preceding couple of pages. a congress worker named irfan brutalised a 7-yr old girl child in mandsaur, MP. people are out on the streets demanding capital punishment for him:

https://twitter.com/OmKrishnayNamah/sta ... 0902739968

whoever is hearing or reading about it firsts asks where is brothelwood & their placards now?!

---------------------

and after 8-on-1 rape case, a nun files case against a bishop for raping her, in asuras' own country:

https://twitter.com/asianetnewstv/statu ... 8431181825

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:10 am

I feel what the article says may be correct. Lets see what happens.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by SSundar » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:04 pm

Supratik wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:10 am
I feel what the article says may be correct. Lets see what happens.
I have not visited India in a couple of years. Is the change visible on the streets like the article says? My view through WhatsApp shows people are inventing evidence to "prove" that there is no Vikas.

For example, a WhatsApp warrior opposing the Chennai-Salem highway claimed that the price rise of commodities AFTER Golden Quadrilateral was constructed proves that Gadkari's claim about reducing logistics costs is fake. A simple observer with rudimentary economic knowledge can debunk that one. But is Aam Aadmi seeing thru such claims?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Indrad » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:49 pm

god...!!! Sheer number of hypocrite journos, dalals and UN, jholawalas etc trying to subvert rape when it happens on a Hindu is shocking!
Classic modus operandi is to pick a random or abusive tweet from anon handle against peaceful community and then divert whole issue !
This is blood boiling!
Same is happening in Mandasaur rape of 8 yr old. Such is shamelessness of Rajdeep he is tweeting there was more outrage on Kathua cos BJP came out in support of rapists .

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:17 pm

Bad move. Hope central BJP nixes it in the bud.

https://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/t ... 295560.ece

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:30 pm

Sundar, it will depend on who you speak to. The rabid anti-BJP, anti-Hindutva and now anti-Modi will make up things specially when if you look at it objectively there is very little wrong this govt has done that the opponents can talk about. So they need to invent a narrative to keep the hopes of their vote-banks alive. As the article says infra takes long to develop. Economic reforms may not be visible to the common man. NDA1 did some of both but got the basics wrong. What Modi has done is target the poor and lower classes with schemes and incredible delivery who make up majority of voting population and generally vote Congress or regional parties. The rest is messaging. He has to ensure that those who voted him in 2014 vote him again specially the aspirational class. He has to also get the vote of the 90 million new voters. Jobs, economy look good now and will sustain for the next year barring oil price surges. That should be good enough to win unless the population goes back to my caste, my region.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Indrad » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:56 pm

Sushma Swaraj has changed every possible rule in retrospect which would have nailed Tanvi Seth, her passport has not been cancelled
Vikas Mishra passport officer continues to be transferred and heavy weight RW handles demonised by press
Modi saar continues to play dhritrashtra.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Raj Malhotra » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:59 pm

Any comments on BJP Govt of Arunachal seeking to revoke Anti Conversion law to help Christian missionaries? Especially in view of Church attempt to spin off NE as an independent Christian State

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:08 pm

The RSS/VHP should stop trying to protect the animist traditions in Arunachal and directly convert them to Hinduism. That is what the missionaries are doing. Not beating about the bush. The animists are loosing numbers and converting to Christianity. With a BJP govt one would think it would be easier. But the Sangh is wasting a lot of time and resources in trying to defend something that is crumbling as has happened in Nagaland, Mizoram and Manipur.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Dumal » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:28 am

I was as disgusted as anyone else here by the media sensationalizing the Lucknow passport case and calling it injustice to the interfaith couple etc... But I fail to see how the address change issue or the H1 visa rejection etc of the lady are relevant to the matter at all. Sounded like the central issue that was publicized was that the officer shouted at the woman and may have questioned her unnecessarily about her name(s). There has been no denial of that publicly as far as I have seen. I think we are beating a dead horse here questioning the officer's transfer or Sushmaji's competency or motive.

If address issue makes her lose the passport or if not agreeing to put her married name in the back page of the passport was not legal, then that should have stopped her application right there, but these are separate issues, IMHO, and cannot be expected to support or disprove the officer's transfer issue.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by hanumadu » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:55 am

If her visa was rejected, she must have had a passport. So why was she applying again? Did it expire, was it a renewal or was it a name change? If it is a name change on the passport, then it is likely with an intention to deceive. She provided documents with different names, so its probably the right procedure to raise doubts. Even the shouting is a fabrication of that lady, according to social media.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by sanjayC » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:14 am

Dumal wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:28 am
Sounded like the central issue that was publicized was that the officer shouted at the woman and may have questioned her unnecessarily about her name(s). There has been no denial of that publicly as far as I have seen.
Has this been proven? According to reports of eyewitnesses carried in the media, this shouting thing and questioning about her religion is a fabrication of the lady who tried to milk the Muslim persecution complex to her benefit. Looks like she wanted to get a new passport with her original Hindu name despite her conversion and adoption of a new Muslim name, so that it become easier for her to get visas and not face hostile questioning at foreign airports.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Nandu » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:33 am

It could be that her original passport expired and she didn't renew it and hence automatically lapsed. She then becomes eligible for applying for a fresh passport. Now nikhanama is not officially a document for name change under civil law. She can call herself by any name under Muslim marriage contract. She could have even converted to islam. That is irrelevant from a citizenship perspective. Passport is a privilege for an Indian citizen as long as citizenship is not in dispute. So the bottom line is that neither her marriage or conversion to islam doesn't alter the official name from birth records. So she could be right in demanding that a passport be issued in her maiden name. Also passports require that you identify yourself as a son of so an so as 'mother' (as they say, paternity is a matter of opinion but maternity is a matter of fact). Would the Indian law make a distinction between a married man and a woman where the latter can only identify herself as a spouse of some X or Y?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:43 am

She submitted different documents under different names.

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