The Great Indian Political Drama - 1 (Oct 2017 - Mar 2018)

[Gus]

YA is being used in KL. A big push is going on there..maybe Sachin can comment on how effective it is/will be.

but the targeting of YA is continuing ..first with the hospital and now with the tejo mahalya

funnily enough..this stuff finds its way in TN political meme factories run by dmk as well..

[Shyamal]

I think all these is not meant for KL or TN audience.
Its meant to enthuse home audience in UP.
KL seems to be far worse than WB even.
Atleast in WB the left vote has been decimated. A sizable section of it has moved to BJP giving it a 15-18% vote share.

[geeth]

Rahul Mehta's posts inevitably leads to Migraine... canwe have the ignore button enabled please...unless it is asking for too much at this time.

[sbajwa]

Rahul Mehta's posts inevitably leads to Migraine... canwe have the ignore button enabled please...unless it is asking for too much at this time.

Definitely!

[Aman]

+108

[AjayKK]

So yes, this canard that we (I count myself a hindutavdi in the core-BJP-voter mold) are pro-sonia just because we raise Qs on Mahatma Modi's current style of running this sarkar will not go unchallenged. Only.

Peace.

I do not have any evidence to back my assertion, but IMHO, this hindutavdi voter never deserts the BJP.
He may be dejected or disappointed, but his vote goes to the BJP.
Never does he go and vote for the BIF.
Hence, to put a question to him "to go and vote for BIF onlee" is a case of gross misunderstanding of the electoral scene.
The hindutvadi voter may or may not take Modi/BJP to majority on his own, but vote he will for the BJP (or the NDA).
Again, IMVHO and I may be wrong, the rampant "criticism" that we are seeing on issues such as "GST bad bad, price hike bad bad" is not coming from this core votebank.
It is those who have aligned for "onlee fast growth in economy/"vikas vikas vikas", this category is directing non-stop criticism either due to a lack of understanding of how things work OR by being misinformed by the media OR some other reason.

As long as the core votebank is happy and energised, and with a little help from this floating voteshare, BJP should be safe.
Isn't this the reason why the entire rank of the BJP out on the roads of Kerala because they want to convert this floating voteshare to hindu voteshare since they will always vote keeping the country in mind as Savarkar put it in 1937 and Pravin Patil puts it by stating about the USHV- United Spectrum of Hindu Votes.

Hence, the response of "go and vote for BIF onlee" should be directed at that floating " i love economy onlee, but modi is failing onlee" votebank rather than at hindus. A certain vina comes to mind.

[rkumar]

Basically, there should be a more RW hard Hindutva political party. This party will get some votes and send some MPs. Ultimately, they will support BJP in a coalition, but then can act as a pressure group on the BJP from the right.

[Gus]

yeah, what does Modi know about how to build a coalition of voting groups and win elections. It's not like we can check his record of how he secures mandate successfully for 5 or 6 elections on the trot..

[Primus]

I am as rah rah right wing (whatever that means) HIndu as they come. But even I can see the problems facing an elected government that needs to cater to a diverse population and bring the country to order. You cannot be openly hostile to any particular group just because they have a different perspective on policy, politics, religion or whatever. The Congress managed to do that because they were not overtly anti-Hindu, they said one thing and did another, thus having the classic plausible deniability built into their system. The Hindus for years were fooled into believing that perhaps their interests were being looked after but were too fragmented or gullible (always been our problem) to really understand what was going on or do anything about it.

Having said that I also feel that there is a need for a truly pro-Hindu, RW, in-your-face group or party that has an overt agenda and is not afraid to push it. Has anybody paid any attention to how the Muslims have done it over the years? When in a minority around the world they still hold governments and political parties to ransom, not to mention the media houses and journalists in the 'free' world. Has there been ANY journalist or publication that has dared to come out with anti-Muslim articles/cartoons/photos after Charlie Hebdo? Terry Jones the pastor, was arrested by the Florida government and is now working in his brother's restaurant as a cook, simply because he threatened to burn the Koran. OmBaba came out loud against him, but nobody gives a damn when Hindu idols/Gods are drawn naked and desecrated. The ONLY reason the world fears Islam is because of the threat of violent action against anybody seen to be critical of Islam. Who carries out this threat? A small fraction of fundoos, but, here is the key factor - the large majority silently support them. Everyone knows, if you mess with Islam, you are likely to lose your head. And it is perfectly OK to criticize and bash Hindus all the time because of course they are a peaceful people.

Imagine if you will, a situation when the majority of Hindus are 'moderate' but there is a small core group that is capable of asserting itself in a manner that gives the others pause. When the Bajrang Dal bashed up that old lech MFH, there was a big hue and cry by the sold Hindu media. Muslim leaders spoke out against the Charlie Hebdo attacks, calling the terrorists cowards, but did a SINGLE one say it is OK to publish cartoons of Mohammed? That is the question nobody is willing to answer. It is fine to say moderate muslims denounce terrorism, but they never say it is OK to be anti-muslim, do they?

The major challenge will not be in forming an ultra-right wing Hindu group. It will be in preventing this 'fringe' element from preying upon Hindus themselves that are perceived to be 'falling out of line'. That is the real fear I have, but I still say there is a need for a political party that is more pro-Hindutva than the BJP has been so far. If anything it will push more non-Hindus towards the BJP for fear of the alternative.

[Gus]

what worked in GJ does not work for India. Even in GJ, modi had the vhp be annoyed at him.

in current climate - it seems clear to me that the focus is on economy, governance, development, reforms etc etc etc..with
1. no further new appeasement, no 'first claim on resources" etc
2. try to generate consensus for things like UCC, triple talaq etc
3. contentious and potentially legal quagmire stuff are case by case basis.

i too would like a repeal of rte, a move forward in rjb, a repeal of 370, liberation of temples etc - but i am not going to pretend i know better than modi on how, when, what etc to prioritize and move. He is in for the long haul and I can wait for a few more years before I crap on him. The constant din of negativity cannot be justified with a "we supported him first" argument. Yeah, you supported him first. But that was not enough in 99, 04, 09.

It will not be enough in 19 as well.

If you cannot wait and have truly lost hope (and not whining because...that's what you do..) - then you will have to build a pressure group/constituency that can force Modi to move right or get upended. The danger is you might split votes or suppress votes and let a MGB overtake NDA. That's the reason why I call "well do you want sonia instead" - because that is exactly what will happen.

[Gus]

say what you want about modi..left or right ..but he is unparalleled in this kind of stuff..even a hindicapped person like me was able to get most of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LssYUg03Pi8&t=3s

and on the other side, arnab is going nuts about the CAG being forced to not table some audit reports...

its like sachin and sehwag batting..

[Hari Seldon]

If you want a pure hindutva agenda as priority over other things, build a constituency for that and find somebody who can win on that platform and then hold him accountable saying "you got elected ONLY because of me, and ONLY for this agenda...so act on it pronto".

And what's with ONLY in caps? Lemme guess, more strawmen building and gallantly tearing down only.

Sly implication being the hindutva voter is averse to vikas, hence a pseC-system supporter. Laughable.

That is not the situation now. So any detraction folks like you do, can be legitimately countered with a "so do you want sonia instead?" - because that is exactly what will happen if modi is brought down.

Sure, your counters are as legitimate as strawmen, misrepresentations, prevarications, and canards are. Which is ALL you have supporting YOUR argument that the Hindu vote is captive, hence disposable, dispensable.

this 'core hindutva' constituency did not get Modi elected on its strength. They by themselves could do crap in 2004 and 2009. And even in 1999 it was a coalition - which also diluted the mandate so much and had to tolerate dmk and such in their cabinet.

Sure, and Rome wasn't built in a day. A child can't be 4 yrs old unless it survived their fourth month of life. It was the core hindu vote starting with the RSS that built and nurtured the BJP in its formative years precisely because 'folks like me' were never OK with the C-system even then.

Too much to expect 'folks like you' to acknowledge facts, even if pertinent, seems like. Theek hai.

IMO, rah-rah-Modi folks have tied themselves into a particular positions and now must perforce defend every inaction on the Yindu front. Cognitive dissonance as piskologist shiv avare would all it, perhaps. Pity. And shame. But nothing new. Only.

P.S. I understand it helps piskologically to bring in stuff like dmk-in-cabinet to divert, muddle and spray attention all over the place. Lol.

between the choice of UPA, or a weak NDA coalition or a modi led NDA with priority on development + no appeasement, I think I am clear on what I want. I am also clear that hindutva alone cannot win a general election.

More twisting, more canards. One can walk and chew gum at the same time - Modi sarkar basic protections (from the state!) for Hindu institutions, shrines, schools and communities without losing focus on the vikas agenda.

Have said moi piece. Am under no illusions any one of us is going to 'convince' the other. More a put-on show for the gallery to help the fence-sitter public decide, perhaps. Feel free to have the last word on this.

P.S. I have no hangups admitting that "your" POV is dominant in govt currently. So you have "won" from that standpoint. Congrats. However, folks like mi will continue our good fight, despite your obvious disapproval. Goodbye and goodluck. Peace.

[Mahakala]

Hey hey hey no blue on blue
See there are nuances
1) We want vikas. We've all had enough of the hindu rate of growth and want piss and progress and moar money.
2) We want hindu causes to be taken up by the govt or get out of managing hindus (while not meddling in minority affairs) so that we can do it ourselves.

To do 2) Modi has to get votes from not just the hardcore voters but anyone who can be swayed and doesn't really differentiate b/w congress and bjp but thinks bjp might give us better economic progress than scam ridden congress. If there is a heavy focus on hindu stuff alone then that vote will slide into indecision and might scatter. This is the vote that won Modi a landslide majority instead of scraping through with a bare majority or a hung parliament. Vikas vikas vikas sabka vikas etc etc was teh platform he came to power on. So he has to deliver there, no questions. If he doesn't, people will get disillusioned and note vote him back into power in 19. Hence the all out attack to diss and denigrate and deny any and all achievements of the government by the left-lib/cong ecosystem as a whole including overseas BIF. By projecting modi as someone who used vikas to gain power and is then pushing hindu(tva) agenda and polarising the country and mainorities are suffering in modis india onlee, they achieve their objective of muddying the waters and ensuring they atleast doubt themselves for having voted in modi.
Media and mindshare management has been subpar for modi and his govt. Let alone terrible decision making in key sectors like HRD & health. We needed a massive + to show after 5 years in both these fields. HDI is a major indicator of progress. I don't see any worthwhile progress on these indicators with utter failures like Irani & Javdekar at MHRD ( I mean what is Modi thinking wtf!). Don't think even the diehard supporters of Modi and bjp can explain that selection. Heck Jetli didn't even up spending on edu & health in 3 budgets so far. DOn't think he'll do in the ones left either. These are the things people look at, apart from money in hand and roads etc.

Now, what should he do? He cannot and should not go all out to declare india as hindu rashtra and paint mainorities are evil. That isn't what we are. But we've seen very very very little pushback against BIF except for a clampdown on fcra inflow. Even that is barely scratching the surface. IOI legal system should've had somebody like Shourie tackle it. He isn't a noob in this field. His books on the EJ problem clearly show that. The Muslim issue is faaar easier to handle and resolve than the EJ issue. We need to do that without fanfare or publicity but hit hard. There will be squeals from abroad like what happened to the Compassion case. They had senate foreign relations committee hearings for it! Repeal UPA-NAC/IOI laws one by one starting from education. That is also how you turn the country around. Shutting down thousands of schools is definitely not good for the country even if you agree to the IOI ideology. We need him to do more. Perhaps he doesn't have good people to do his work. I don't agree but it is a convenient excuse.
I mean I don't have to tell you guys about the defense minister situation.

[Aditya_V]

I have simple solution of these Uber RW types, you can have a party better ideology once you make the current CPI(M), TMC, INC, DMK, YSR(C), SP, BSP patently anti Hindu parties irrelevant in politics. For eg in Gujarat Rajastan, Himachal, MP, Chattisgarh why is the INC even a force given its patent anti-hindu attitude. Anyone opposed to BJP can form a party without peddling the agenda of BIF, First make the BIF parties irrelevant.

[Chandragupta]

People are unnecessarily thinking that going uber hard on Hindutva is going to drive the fickle away. As long as Vikas is happening, do you think the non-kattar Hindu is going to care what is happening on the Hindutva front? Did they care about the blatant Islamic appeasement in India as long as they were getting their salaries on time? Only the media narrative needs to be managed so that BJP is not on defensive. Tomorrow, if BJP goes out & out anti-Muslim, with a good GDP growth & economic scenario, they will sail through the elections. For good or for bad, a large mass of Hindus only care about paisa/economics, everything else can go take a walk.

[JohnTitor]

I have to say that Hari ji has a valid argument. Both can happen simultaneously, with the non-econonic development beinf done silently.

The danger of putting off this until all vikas is complete is that, by the time we reach yhat stage, there may not be enough true hindus left. Every day we see things getting worse and BIF working toward crippling the hindu ecosystem. Hindus are being converted by hook and crook, assets are being reallocated etc..

So some progress on the hindu protection front needs to take place. Frankly, I see none.

[abhijit]

get rid of modi under the arguments of 'pseudo-hindutvavaad' for not fixing rte, temples, rjb, ucc etc and bring back sonia, rahul, mulayam, yechury, mani shankar, diggy raja, omar abdullah, periyarists etc. That will fix it. comes with free fixing of gdp growth as well by chidambaram.

Can YOU explain why Modiji etc have NOT freed Indian temples from Govt control? Even in RSS ruled states like MP, Gujarat, MAharashtra etc, we see temples under Govt control?

explain 'free temples'. currently majority trusts are installed by congress or has cong pasand people in charge whereas majority states are ruled by bjp. Free them now and shoot your own foot?

[JohnTitor]

explain 'free temples'. currently majority trusts are installed by congress or has cong pasand people in charge whereas majority states are ruled by bjp. Free them now and shoot your own foot?

I think free in the sense of not reallocating wealth from hindus to others. Some 85% of hundi wealth is reallocated in the name of secularism. Instead specify that any wealth accrues needs to be ploughed back into the temple and all finances need to be published openly. Let's start with that.

Secondly not using temple premises for purposes other than hindu spiritual work. We've seen how temples arw beinf used as iAS officer's personal land and lending it out for non hindu work.

How's that for a start?

[abhijit]

explain 'free temples'. currently majority trusts are installed by congress or has cong pasand people in charge whereas majority states are ruled by bjp. Free them now and shoot your own foot?

I think free in the sense of not reallocating wealth from hindus to others. Some 85% of hundi wealth is reallocated in the name of secularism. Instead specify that any wealth accrues needs to be ploughed back into the temple and all finances need to be published openly. Let's start with that.

Secondly not using temple premises for purposes other than hindu spiritual work. We've seen how temples arw beinf used as iAS officer's personal land and lending it out for non hindu work.

How's that for a start?

Temples are working as private trust IIRC. You need change in laws. This is a bigger fight and this may not be the right time when first 5 years are being focused on economy.

right way is not about doing right all the time, but doing right thing at right time. Lets give them more time.

[JohnTitor]

Temples are working as private trust IIRC. You need change in laws. This is a bigger fight and this may not be the right time when first 5 years are being focused on economy.

right way is not about doing right all the time, but doing right thing at right time. Lets give them more time.

I was talking about government run temples. Private temples are just that, private. What they do with funds is up to them, though there should be some restrictions/transparency. They cannot become fronts for another objective.

Saar, right time will never come. Today it is one opponent, tomorrow another. No one is saying that this be done exclusively. But some progress needs to be shown for people to give more time. People are understanding, if they know that something is happening they will wait and be patient. The problem is when no progress is made and more patience is asked for.

This might simply be a PR issue that BJP has no clue about. If so they need to fix it. BJP are always on the backfoot defending themselves for every action and decision they make. Clearly they need to learn from the congis how to manage media and perception.

[syam]

Ok. Some Uber cool RW Hinduthvawadis want BJP to be pro-hindhuthva.
How will that happen? If BJP is failing and not responding to the core issues, these RW should build new party.

This so called RW is the reason why old forum had to be shutdown. They are not capable of securing their own turf, but bark like idiots.
Please let them destroy every advantage Hindus have.

[Hari Seldon]

This so called RW is the reason why old forum had to be shutdown.

Really? Prove it. Or accept you just pharted some Guas trying to look uber cool while doing so.

They are not capable of securing their own turf, but bark like idiots.

Real mature. So you can't parse an opposing argument, a pre-requisite to building your own counter-argument.

Hence you resort to name-calling. Anyone who disagrees with syam must be a barking idiot, see, because, you know, syam says so.

If BJP is failing and not responding to the core issues, these RW should build new party.

And why is that? Isn't BJP 'our' party too? So we can't raise 'our' issues whereas 'folks like you' can?

Oh, I can and I will raise issues as I see fit. Deal with it.

Preferably sans name-calling and ad hominem attacks. If you can, that is.

Please let them destroy every advantage Hindus have.

Look who's talking .

Randomly stringing together sentences hoping they constitute an argument, saar? Lage raho.

Chaley aate hain. Only.

[syam]

@Hari Sheldon. See I am not specific about who is idiot . My gripe is with uber RW hindus. If you come under that category, that's not my problem.
I just added little bit youthfulness to the winds. That's it.

So called uber RW is only good at messing things up. It is proven on record. They did same to Vajpayee. Not only BJP, they did same to every hindu organisation. Even forums are not safe from them.

[Sachin]

YA is being used in KL. A big push is going on there..maybe Sachin can comment on how effective it is/will be..
but the targeting of YA is continuing ..first with the hospital and now with the tejo mahalya

I think all these is not meant for KL or TN audience.
Its meant to enthuse home audience in UP.

I have been scanning the usual news sources in KL. One; they have all reported this event with each news outlets bias also being out there in full flow. YA has also made some real bold statement (eg: Dengue Fever spread in Kerala was far worse even when KL is a tiny state compared to UP where the spread was much less). This is when the Kerala media was acting like a compass (only points to Northern direction) and continuously blaming UP Govt & Yogi for the death of the children at the hospital etc. Yogi knew what the local media (and "progressive liberals" Keralites) would say, but yet he went ahead and made such statements. From what I understand it is channels like Zee (popular in Hindi belt) which is covering the rally with more vigour.

In Indian democracy, such campaigns may not give much push to the Kerala BJP. All said and done, BJP leadership in Kerala needs to have the capacity to garner votes and win elections. No amount of Yogi & Shah marching up and down in Kerala is going to change that basic requirement. Kerala BJP leadership is mediocre, and pretty much the entire establishment (business houses, media houses, govt. agencies) are against them.

Conducting such a Yatra in KL (where BJP is nothing) seems to be a battle with multiple war fronts.
1. Take the fight to the enemy home ground. BJP is organising an event in a state where they are nothing. Yet they could manage this, with the CPI(M) and Congress of the state being left to stand aside and do nothing. Miffed statements and whines is all they could do. Note; this is a state where the government tried to use a cheap trick to stop RSS cheif from hoisiting the national flag. That back-fired big time.
2. Each day BJP cadre from a state in India is also joining the rally. The BJP cadre from that state gets good enjoyment (paid trip to KL), gets convinced in his party's popularity and organising skills. Perhaps more votes for BJP in that state. Gentle reminder to the CPI(M) folks (state level and the jobless ones at New delhi) that they are really nothing in Indian politics. No amount of media support can actually bring in people like this. Don't know if CPI(M) can pull up a similar rally in Maharashtra or UP (BJP strong holds).
3. The state level BJP cadre also gets a chance to show they are a viable alternative. Perhaps some motivation NOT to jump ships. I don't know if there is a veiled threat that targetting RSS/BJP cadre at the state level, may also lead to a situation where Keralites gets targetted in other states (some thing similar to a police flag march).

KL seems to be far worse than WB even.
Atleast in WB the left vote has been decimated.

Assuming KL to be a cake-walk, because they could do it in WB is a wrong thought, IMHO. West Bengal has remained a poor state irresective of who ruled. People out there may jump ships if their basic neccessities are taken care off. An average Keralite leads a much better life, even in the present condition. He really need not think of an alternative unless things gets really dicey. Every single establishment of the state is now firmly in the control of minority religions, with they managing to call the shots 99.9 times. But yet the majority community has not started seeing any visible threats to their existence. The recent issues of Love Jehad is perhaps just the changing point. The BJP Yatra in the state deliberately highlighting Islamic terrorism, I feel is done with a reason. That is to shake up the average Malayali communist atheist/intellectual to wake up to some danger (which would hit him personally). The state is actually very conservative, when we go a level deeper. Social customs, "Keep up with Jones", "Log Kya Kahenge" etc. are really on the over-drive mode in Kerala.

[abhijit]

...some progress needs to be shown for people to give more time. People are understanding, if they know that something is happening they will wait and be patient.

I agree to this point.